Revising the APR Line

Guides and discussions about building water blasters and other water warfare devices such as water balloon launchers.
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DX
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Post by DX » Sat Jul 01, 2006 11:24 pm

Lucky that I haven't posted directions or many pictures yet, meaning that the change will not confuse anyone. Instead of 5 progressively larger homemades, the names will be based on the pipe size of the top of the pc.

APR 1000 = 1" pc [probably won't bother building]
APR 2000 = 2" pc [current APR 1000]
APR 3000 = 3" pc [current APR 2000]
APR 4000 = 4" pc [currently in progress]

So the name switch only affects two guns, with the APR 500 being dropped altogether. Since the pcs can be any length, this leaves plenty of wiggle room if others want to amend the specifications. It is also not based on whether there is a backpack or reservoir, so again, lots of room for making the same gun with different specs if one wants to.

A sneak peak at the APR 4000 in progress:

Image

Yeah, that's a 4" pc with a 3" reservoir and 1/2" pump. This gun will mean business.
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers

m15399
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Post by m15399 » Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:08 am

Shouldn't your funny shaped T be the other way? That would laminate the stream even more than a standard T.

DX
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Post by DX » Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:00 am

Yeah, that's not the actual T I'm using. That's the only T I had lying around, [from another homemade] and I needed one for the picture. When I was shopping, I didn't realize I would need another 2" T. I kind of made up the gun as I went along, and when you do that, you know you'll forget something... :laugh:
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers

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urbanfighter7
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Post by urbanfighter7 » Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:44 pm

They look pretty cool.How far do you think they will shoot and when will you post instrustions. :)
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sneakysniper
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Post by sneakysniper » Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:19 pm

You are obviously extremely knowledgeable about water guns Dux, and obviously very handy in building them. Did you ever consider selling some ideas to major soaker manufacturers? Maybe we can encourage corporations to return to a trend of larger water guns like the glory days of the Monsters and large CPSs.
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Post by Drenchenator » Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:28 am

Actually Ben gives help (for free) to some of the companies occasionally (specifically Buzz Bee Toys). In 2004, he recommended belt clips for smaller water guns and this year he he recommended using the fuzzy nozzle to increase range (though he only asked them how it would work, but they liked the idea).

I am pretty sure that the water gun companies know what they are doing. Just because they don't build massively powerful guns does not mean that they do not know how to. The only thing that they have not built that we have built are constant air pressure guns, and they probably would never build those because the air pressure regulators are not cheap. It would a good alternative for CPS for Buzz Bee Toys though, but expensive with industrial regulators.
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Post by sneakysniper » Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:58 am

That's pretty sweet (not to mention impressive). I wasn't trashing the water gun companies just curious.
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DX
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Post by DX » Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:36 pm

They have the capability to make more powerful guns, but the current market alignment makes it unprofitable to do so. Case Closed.

The other thing about CAP guns is that you need an electrical source to power the air compressor. Meaning you can be the king of suburbia, but your gun is next to useless on other battlefields when your pressure is used up. Then again, I have never seen the length of time a CAP has on the field, so you could get covering fire and use some portable power source. Then again, that's a perfect time for an enemy push/surge, so your team would have to have other long range, high output guns there as well.
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers

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Post by SSCBen » Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:00 pm

You can use a pump like anything else with CAP. A small CAP water gun hasn't been made, but it's completely possible. Larger ones obviously would take a lot of effort to pump up.

Even still, I figured none of that mattered when making my one. I can get at least 5 full shots from a full pressure tank at a lower regulated pressure, and that's 8 liter shots. I can get at least two shots with the regulator bypass. Both are conservative estimates too. I'm sure I can get more and I'll test both afterwards. That's nothing to mess around with.

That's something I definitely want to clear up about the CAP design. Any good CAP design will have a large enough air chamber to allow for not only more than one full shot, but many full shots. Refilling is as easy as pouring water into the chamber - no pumping or repressurizing until you completely run out of air, if you ever do. Even at a lower pressure, power will be very high due to the internal diameter and amount of flow it is capable of.

I probably won't be here to read your reply to this, but do you have any plans for a CAP design? I think this'd be something right up your alley.




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Post by DX » Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:57 pm

I would love to make a compact CAP gun with a pump rather than a compressor. Since I do not know how to make a CAP gun with those limitations, a new design will be necessary. When you get back, a design for me to study/modify would be much appreciated. :cool: However, even with the pump/size taken care of, I'm still worried about the air chamber. Can it be designed as an onboard part? Because big backpacks/big pvc hanging off a frame backpack won't work. I would get stuck when I manuever in reeds. Had I a SuperCAP-esque thing on my back during that perfect ambush last war, I would have gotten stuck when popping out.
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers

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Post by Drenchenator » Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:06 pm

Actually, even Ben's SuperCAP could be filled with air from a pump. The air input valve has a female threaded attachment so that you can attach a plethora of attachments, including pumps. If you pump up the gun before the battle, you will have 7 gallons of air at a certain pressure, which if regulated, would last an entire battle. All that you need to do is supply the water.
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Post by bb1 » Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:43 pm

Want a CAP with a compressor and pump? I believe it would be possible to have the compressor run on power, but the other end of the pump covered in powerful magnets. The compressors intake would be covered in many iron brushes, so each pump generates a bunch of current. So in about 10 pumps you have water flowing ready to explode onto it's victim. Of course, you must keep pumping to generate energy to keep it firing, but 10-15 pumps is nothing for very VERY long shot time.

This idea has been done with those magnetic flashlights that you shake up, with magnets rubbing against coils of the opposite pollarity.

It would be very interesting to see how a gun like this would work...I've always wanted to be a generator :p

P.S- It would be cool to be charging it up and hearing the compressor get faster and faster.... like some guy with a fetish for hotrods listening to the RPM....

We have the technology, why not put it to use?




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Post by SSCBen » Sat Jul 15, 2006 8:13 am

I came back early from my hiking trip. These trips I hate, so I only stayed for half of it.

@Duxburian: I'll draw up a single piece CAP design for you. The design will be as close to how I think you'd do something like this as possible. I'm thinking something like a U shape. A small backpack design would also be an option, but I think a single-piece one would be better.

@bb1: You wouldn't get anywhere near enough current to operate the compressor like that. That'd be like 99.9% pump pressure and 0.1% compressor pressure at best.

If you were set on using a compressor, batteries would be your best bet. There's a reason that technology is only used in flashlights. Solar panels might also be another thing I could see someone recommend, but that would be also impractical, and also expensive. This is why I simply use an air compressor with a really big tank.

:)




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bb1
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Post by bb1 » Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:42 am

You'd be surprised on what big magnets can do- I've seen some pretty impressive things run off of magnets rubbing each other (For example, my whole city :cool: )

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Post by SSCBen » Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:37 am

Any power station has like infinity times the force I do. Plus big magnets weight a ton unless you get the special super-strong ones (which cost a ton), along with the compressor. That'd take away my water capacity unless I want the increased weight. Sorry, but it's not a practical idea at all.

I don't mean to discourage anyone, but this isn't practical. I remember years ago I jokingly suggested using a dehumidifier to give yourself infinite capacity... sad thing was, some people I think took it seriously! Just because it's an idea that works elsewhere does not mean that it will work here.

Now go ahead and prove me wrong, please, as I often am. If you honest think this is a great idea, no one's stopping you from making it.

:cool:

As for Duxburian's drawing, I hadn't put it on paper yet.

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Post by bb1 » Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:20 am

OooooooOOooOOOooo

a humidifier would be a cool way to have TONS of ammo :D But there we go again with the impracticallities, heaviness would be it....ok I'm no supergenious so forget I said anything :p

That'd take away my water capacity unless I want the increased weight.


They have something like that- MonsterXL :D

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Post by SSCBen » Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:26 pm

I don't think you realize that my CAP water gun probably weights about 30 pounds to begin with. This easily beats the Monster XL for size and weight. The frame backpack it uses easily allows it to weigh a lot without issue, and over two thirds of it's weight is water. :D

Anyway, I think this thread should return to talk about Duxburian's APR water guns. If you want to talk about CAP water guns, make a new thread. I can talk about those all year.

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