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Guides and discussions about building water blasters and other water warfare devices such as water balloon launchers.
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isoaker
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Post by isoaker » Sat Nov 05, 2005 3:49 pm

I was doing some digging and found this article that I found interesting and thought the community, particularly homebuilders and modders, might be interested in.

I'm not sure about the accuracy of the entire article, but this sort of problem is something those questing for more powerful water blasters should keep in mind. It's a pretty slick-looking device, though...

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Post by ZOCCOZ » Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:56 pm

If nerdy scientists were able to cary the backpack cannon, its sad that the police can't. We all knew that those Coffee + Donut diets will eventually backfire. :goofy:

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Post by Some Guy » Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:41 pm

I think that the power is too high. Since for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction,that would mean that high power and output things like that would have too much kickback, knocking them over. It might just be easier to mount it on something...



Edited By Some Guy on 1131234133

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Post by SSCBen » Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:05 am

Old thread, but I have new insight.

I used to be a little skeptical of this, but I'd believe it now. Knocking yourself over can and has happened.

Back a few years ago, I remember people being stunned about the output of water guns such as the CPS 2000 or the XP 150 with the nozzle off. I remember when I first removed the nozzle selector from my CPS 2700 and how impressed I was, but right now that wouldn't phase me. Those are all lightweights compared to what I have experienced.

Water outputs higher than 100X are more rocket than water gun. Sure, a shot that powerful is quite an impressive display, one to be taken seriously! It doesn't have any real use however. You can and will drench a small group of people with a 50X riot blast. A harder to control 120X riot blast is not going to get them as wet.

120X wasn't enough to knock me over, but on a smaller person it would have been. That shot was harder to aim and keep steady than it was to hold myself. Due to how I was holding the water gun, I rotated at first. With something like this, balancing the torque better is key.

Eventually, that water gun will be fixed up again for a video. Some should recall that the water gun was damaged after a tubing clamp burst off and parts need to be replaced and redesigned so it doesn't happen again. I've avoided repair somewhat by doing some website work, but rest assured that it will be repaired. This video will be an experience for everyone.

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Post by Adrian » Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:26 am

I thought that was going to be a report on water cannons used TO topple police, not used BY police...Oh well. Maybe some day.

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Post by isoaker » Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:31 am

Water is heavier than many people appreciate. I've known of people wanting to put a large fishtank in their place, but found out that the floor was strong enough to take the weight (1 cu ft of water is about 27L which means it weighs ~27kg or ~59 lbs). A small fishtank is on the order of 2 cu ft.

At any rate, a 100x output pushes 3L (100oz) or ~3kg of water per second! As I'm sure your soaker has decent range, that's a lot of energy being released. The video would be great to see though I'd have to agree that typical water warfare combat use would be minimal. Perhaps as a base long-range shower cannon, but definitely NOT for CQC. :goofy:

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Post by SSCBen » Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:47 am

If you shot someone close with this water gun at full strength, it would probably knock them down and bruise them in the process. You have to realize that I was a little more stable than most people would be, with at least 30 pounds in my backpack to start, and at least 10 with the system empty. I'm also definitely stronger than your average water gun user. I'm convinced it would have knocked most over.

During the spin, Drenchenator took a slight hit and he described it as feeling like a hard slap.

My intention was to use this water gun in water fights from the start, but I hadn't realized it's potential. This water gun will not be used unregulated after the video shot, and it will be regulated at a very low pressure (like 20 - 30 PSI). Regulated I was getting great distance, constant power, and I wasn't using up my air supply too quickly. Unregulated, it is too much to handle. I included the regulator bypass for extreme flow, and that's exactly what I got.

Here's a related thread with some interesting reactions from before it was done: http://www.isoaker.com/cgi-bin....8;t=501

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Post by DX » Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:56 am

Guns with 100x output, such as CAPs and water cannons, are perfect for CQC! How cautious would you be if the guy around the corner could unleash doom in a fraction of a second? :p

People who marvel at the "kickback" of guns such as the CPS 2000 have no idea what real kickback is. The first time I ever shot the APWL, it gave me literal kickback-the gun flew backwards and I went with it. :laugh: Even now, I brace myself hard before flipping that valve, and aiming the thing is more luck than anything else. I can't measure the output yet due to air leaks bringing down the stats, but it's probably around 105-110x. The APWL has more recoil than a 12 gauge double barreled shotgun [I've used both].

These kinds of weapons are more for intimidation and are not very practical, but they are amazing as specialized sidearms. Especially for ambushing. In that situation, all you have to do is aim somewhere near the enemy and you'll get them. :p
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Post by m15399 » Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:27 pm

They would make great traps, though. If they were heavily anchored, the kickback wouldn't be an issue. You could even use the spinning to your advantage to make a larger target area for your trap.

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Post by Crashdummy » Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:12 pm

True, but what if it hit someone? Turn it into a wire trap! :p On bad step and BOOM!

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Post by SSCBen » Mon Jul 03, 2006 4:36 pm

Every time I go and read an old review of something like the CPS 2000, I laugh real hard now. You can feel the gun buck? Wow, you must have something real special there. :goofy:

Sarcasm aside, I don't think anyone really understands how much thrust I was getting with this. When I say thrust, that's what I mean. This was 120X with a pretty decent range. I didn't measure, but I know it went over 30 feet (but I'll admit, I have no idea what angle it was at, but it probably was flat). Meanwhile, people are awed by the Flash Floods measly 11X that goes less than 25 feet flat.

That's a lot of power. Sure, it will get someone wet fast, but that's just unfair. 50X is overkill anyway. I'd got for conservation of riot blast shots because once you have that wall of water going, more won't make much of a difference.

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Post by bb1 » Mon Jul 03, 2006 5:07 pm

Well these fights are supposed to be fun, how many people would come fight with you if you had a weapon that inflicted pain???

A nice wire trap with this would be you are hiding in the bushes, somebody walks over your trip wire, bracing themselves to be drenched. Realizing nothing has happened, they stop and look confused at what the wire was attached to- 2 strings. Now knowing they have been duped, they turn to run but BAM you open the valve! Heh... Fun.

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Post by DX » Mon Jul 03, 2006 5:57 pm

Well these fights are supposed to be fun, how many people would come fight with you if you had a weapon that inflicted pain???


Plenty. Uncomfort is part of the game. However, we are very careful when shooting powerful stuff and I will pass on a kill shot if it would hurt an enemy beyond normal impact. Part of the honor system I guess.

Traps are only effective if used in a way similiar to bb1's thinking. I would hide in front of the trap, so when the enemy finds the trap and backs away, you hit them in the back. :p
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Post by kylemw9 » Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:53 pm

bb1 wrote:Well these fights are supposed to be fun, how many people would come fight with you if you had a weapon that inflicted pain???

A nice wire trap with this would be you are hiding in the bushes, somebody walks over your trip wire, bracing themselves to be drenched. Realizing nothing has happened, they stop and look confused at what the wire was attached to- 2 strings. Now knowing they have been duped, they turn to run but BAM you open the valve! Heh... Fun.
people play airsoft and paintball. I wanted to see what A paint ball felt like so I let my friend shoot me I had A bruise about the size of an orange for week but people still play at closer ranges than what I was shot at so I don't know if the whole pain thing would keep people from playing.(Wow my longest post)
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Post by SSCBen » Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:11 am

It's not going to hurt anywhere near as much as paintball would if it hurts much at all. The "stream" is traveling slower, is far wider so the impact is spread out, and breaks up on impact. Want to know why frozen paintball hurt more than regular ones? Pressure. The frozen paintball does not break up, putting all of that force in a smaller area. The regular paintball breaks up, putting all of that force onto a wider area - less pressure.

A lot of force will be imparted onto a person shot by a >100X stream with good range. It'd hit them on large total area, so it won't necessarily hurt, but it probably will knock them over. Lots of water breaking up on you probably would feel like a slap, as Drenchanator said.

If you shot them point blank, I would not be surprised if they got a bruise or worse however.

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Post by mike9909 » Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:35 pm

I was wondering... for the water guns that gives you knockback (120 psi +), can't you just mount a stand to the gun such as the oppsed force would go to the ground? But then again if you mount a stand to the water gun its not a gun anymore, it's a freakin' cannon/missile launcher :S

Also I was wondering how much psi does the water hose on a fire truck can push?? anyone know?

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Post by Drenchenator » Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:15 am

You don't need at least 120 PSI to create a "knockback" in a water gun. It can happen at almost any pressure if the conditions are right.

I don't really know too much about fire trucks, but I believe that I was told that they shoot water at about 4 liters per second (~133X). The Howstuffworks article seems to say that a fire engine can shoot water because it uses a "impeller water pump". It also says that a fire engine creates water pressure (water does not pressurize under normal conditions, but it can be pressurized somehow). I don't necessary know how high the pressure gets, but I would guess that it gets quite high.
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Post by SSCBen » Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:38 am

I don't think you read everything correctly mike9909.

It's not 120 PSI that will give a lot of thrust. I'd imagine 120 PSI would give a lot of thrust, but that depends on the water gun design. It's 120X of output that gives a lot of thrust. Output and pressure are completely different. I acheived that 120X of output with only 60 PSI.

The idea behind this water gun was that it was portable. You probably haven't looked at any pictures of it, but simply put, mounting it on a stand would be impossible because it's designed only to fit onto a backpack. There are water cannons capable of being mounted, but that one was just a test and didn't work very well due to a few shortcuts I took. Version two has not been finished.

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Post by mike9909 » Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:31 pm

O_O; that thing is huge...

thx for the correction. :D

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