The Douchenator - Legal or not?

Guides and discussions about building water blasters and other water warfare devices such as water balloon launchers.
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Lt.Winters
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Post by Lt.Winters » Sat Jun 24, 2006 10:51 pm

Hey everybody!

I'm planning on making a Douchenator, but not too sure weither or not making such a device is illegal. I've check the Government of Canada's website but I cant seem to find the laws.

If this is unclear or already answered please tell me.
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DX
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Post by DX » Sat Jun 24, 2006 11:00 pm

It probably isn't, since it uses plain air pressure. Try Googling some terms, such as legality of pnuematic guns in Canada or something like that.
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers

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Post by SSCBen » Sat Jun 24, 2006 11:11 pm

Call your local police. I'm serious too. That seems to be the only way to get the local and national laws. If they say you can do it, it's a definite go-ahead. If they say that they'd have to check up on that, wait until they give you a reply.

I doubt however that the Douchenator is illegal in most places. It uses air pressure and recharge time ain't too great. I'm sure that you could hurt someone with it, but you also could just take a PVC pipe and smack them with it too if you were set on hurting someone. Combustion cannons might be a different story though, but no one uses combustion for WBLs due to a variety of factors, so you're safe.

One place I am fairly sure they are illegal in however is Australia. I haven't heard much aside from there, you'll be in big trouble to have anything.

Here people are extremely conservative when it comes to guns. I brought an air cannon into school one day and no one seemed to care much. Of course, I did check out the legality of what I was doing before-hand. Amazingly, I got it straight from the principal - anything that is not combustion powered or does not have a rifled barrel is an "antique" weapon and can be brought in for demonstration purposes, even unannounced.




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Post by DX » Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:30 pm

Here we can make pnuematics, but they must be kept on private property. If you brought a launcher into the middle of town or into a school, the entire area would panic since the threat of terrorism is still really high in Northern New Jersey. However, we have brought the Douchenator into forested parks and no one has seemed to care.
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers

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Post by NiborDude » Sun Jun 25, 2006 1:06 pm

I don't think students with a douchenator is going to make people think terrorism. It will make them think columbine. I believe its legal in Canada. Check Spud Tech. They probably have a whole legalality section.
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Lt.Winters
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Post by Lt.Winters » Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:39 pm

Okay, after searching a bit, I've found this:

( d) any other barrelled weapon, where it is proved that the weapon is not designed or adapted to discharge

(i) a shot, bullet or other projectile at a muzzle velocity exceeding 152.4 m per second or at a muzzle energy exceeding 5.7 Joules, or

(ii) a shot, bullet or other projectile that is designed or adapted to attain a velocity exceeding 152.4 m per second or an energy exceeding 5.7 Joules.


So I guess I got the "go" to build one as long as the water ballon doesn't exceed a velocity of 152.4 m per second.

....But how am I supposed to measure that?
???




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"In better days that lie ahead, men will speak with pride of our doings." --Gen. Monty

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Post by SSCBen » Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:28 pm

You can buy a projectile velocity meter in paintball or gun stores. You shoot the projectile through the sensors and it does the math to calculate the average velocity over the short interval.

Or you could try the cheap, inaccurate, and probably not legal in court method of shooting the gun a certain amount of feet, timing how long the projectile takes to reach the end from firing, and then doing the math to find the average velocity over that larger interval.

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Adrian
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Post by Adrian » Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:14 pm

He stated he's in Canada - they probably don't HAVE any gun stores, and I'm pretty sure paintball's on the way out too. Hell, last I heard airsoft is dying up there. Why? Haven't the faintest. I gave up trying to apply logic to law years ago.

Call the fuzz and ask them about it. If they don't know, you're probably safe. Tape the conversation if you can, make copies of the tape, and play it for anyone who comes calling.

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Post by SSCBen » Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:13 pm

That's probably right. You have to remember though, that I live is extremely conservative when it comes to guns. There's a gun and archery shop less than half a mile from my house, and less than a quarter mile from the elementary school.

Try some other places like archery, science supply, or maybe even rocketry stores for a speed meter. There's got to be something similar.

The other thing I'm wondering is why they chose exactly 152.4 m/s as opposed to a more rounded number. Is that how fast a normal sized bullet must go to cause serious damage or something? Sounds pretty damn fast to me.

Actually, I doubt you'll be able to get this to shoot over 50 m/s. At school we were trying to measure my air cannon's velocity from the barrel, but our cheap laser sensors couldn't keep up fast enough. That cannon was massive, and I'll doubt you'll run into that problem.

You'll also have to do the math to make sure you don't exceed 5.7 joules of kinetic energy. That's actually extremely low given that we're shooting something with mass. Seems like a trick to me. The 152.4 m/s might be a catch all.

Doing the math, given a water balloon containing 200mL of water (mass of the balloon being negligible), your limit on velocity is 7.550 m/s. A smaller water balloon containing 100 mL of water can go 10.817 m/s. An even smaller 50 mL water balloon can go 15.100 m/s.

Extremely disappointing. This effectively bans some water balloon launchers. Though, Nerf should be great in this limit because the dart weight so little.

(If you need to know, all I did was use K=.5*m*v^2 to calculate the maximum velocity.)

Edit: I know this is supporting their evil, but I think you might want to consider registering your WBL with them. It definitely will have easier restrictions.

Edit again: I just did the math - it appears that they set the Joules standard before the velocity standard. 152.4 m/s equals 5.7 Joules at about 0.5 g. Yes, that's half a gram.




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Post by Adrian » Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:56 pm

Registering a waterballoon launcher with the authorities? Oh God, that's funny. That's like the guy who registered his shoe string as a machine gun because when you tie it around the bolt and trigger of a Mini-14, it (kind of) bump-fires in full auto. Don't you just love asinine regulations?

Ask the fuzz. If they don't know, build it. If you don't inspire any ire in your neighbors, everything'll work out.

Adrian
“To achieve a World Government it is necessary to remove from their minds their individualism, their loyalty to family traditions, national patriotism and religious dogma.”…..Brock Adams, Director, United Nations Health Organisation.

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Post by NiborDude » Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:33 pm

152.4 m per second is pretty damn fast. I would be surprised if the Douchenator shot anywhere near that speed. The Douchenator shoots at around 200 feet per second at best. That's paintball speed.
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-[color=E9E9E9]Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes! -Leonardo Da Vinci[/color]-

Drenchenator
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Post by Drenchenator » Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:09 am

The problem is not the maximum speed, it's the kinetic energy. A 50mL water balloon could only travel a lowly 15.1 meters per second by their law, which is only 33.8 miles per hour. If you shot a normal water balloon (~200 to 400 mL of water) at that speed, you would violate their "kinetic energy policy" big time.

As Doom said, it appears as if they based the 152.4 m/s on the 5.7 joules of kinetic energy. And based on that, a projectile that would weigh a half of a gram could be shot at that speed. Half of a gram is the same as half a pen cap or half a Smartie.
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Lt.Winters
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Post by Lt.Winters » Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:52 am

Geez guys, our gun control isn't THAT strict! We have guns/paintball/airsoft (or anything like that).
So I guess I should be alright building one.........
Now all I need is the money (not a question to ask you guys).... :(



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"In better days that lie ahead, men will speak with pride of our doings." --Gen. Monty

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