CPS 1200 Issue

[SEAL]

Just a few minutes ago, I was fighting with my brothers in the woods (Battle report coming soon.), and my beloved 1200's valve got stuck open. We were filling our blasters from the creek, but I don't think that would've had anything to do with it.

So I have a few questions. One, is there anything special that I need to do to open it? I notice the pump cap is glued on, and possibly the nozzle cover. And two, since I'm opening it anyway, I figure I might as well K-mod it. Any tips for doing that? I can't find a guide.

Above all, I do not want to wreck it any further, since it's one of my most valued weapons.

[isoaker]

SSC covers K-mods well, but you probably already know that. Don't think I've ever opened a CPS1200, but that glued nozzle cap will definitely be a challenge. I do not recall anyone being able to remove it particularly cleanly, though perhaps careful sawing or cutting might reduce the damage to the shell and allow you to put it mostly back on afterwards.

As for your valve problem, are you sure it is the valve or the spring system to push the valve closed having failed? Does the trigger move freely now?

[martianshark]

Getting the nozzle cover off is really hard. You'll probably have to mod it afterward to get it to work right. Once you get it open, you probably just have to do the rubber band mod.

Or, maybe it can be fixed with some use. Then you wouldn't have to worry about opening it.

[SEAL]

Thanks iSoaker.

The trigger still feels normal, but when you try to pump, water shoots out of the nozzle.

martainshark: I've already played around with it, and I got it working again a few times, but now, no matter what I do, it's still stuck.

[cantab]

I've opened a CPS 1200 (and left it opened, I really ought to put it back together!), and don't remember it being too hard to take apart.

[SEAL]

Well, I guess I'll try my luck with it tomorrow.

cantab: Which one? I have the yellow version, but I don't know if the silver one is any different.

[cantab]

Yellow body, purple reservoir and PC case.

[DX]

You need someone who has experience opening 1200s...














With real estate, it's all about location, location, location.

With water guns, it's all about version, version, version.

1200s have 4 of them that we know of:
MK1 - yellow and purple - pump cap not glued - nozzle cover not glued
MK2 - yellow and purple - pump cap potentially glued - nozzle cover glued
MK3 - silver and purple - pump cap not glued - nozzle cover not glued
MK4 - silver and purple - pump cap potentially glued - nozzle cover glued

Reportedly, the versions without glue also have the best stats. Not too much is known about the ones in silver, but the yellow ones are well known. MK1 has ridiculous HPL and can take a balloon count into the 40s, with full pumping, and without touching the PRV (although its sweet spot for range is around 30-35 as you saw at the Community War). My 12K outranged my 10K when I tested them side by side at the pavilion despite the 10K having about 10 more balloons on it. MK2 starts to complain in the 20s. These are personally verified.

It sounds like your trigger valve spring isn't returning to its proper position. Rubber band repair *should* resolve it by placing more pressure on the spring to return it.

It also sounds like your 1200 is MK2 and it may be annoying to open (worse than CPS 2100 MK2 imo). If you don't care about condition, you can saw the pump cap in half, but the nozzle cover is a bitch. My maxim for that is "Pry With Patience". I've done it before and it took a lot of prying coupled with plying. The glue *should* be concentrated on the top and bottom so start there and see if you can force the sides off through prying. If you want to do it as cleanly as possible, saw down the casing half lines with something really thin, like a cutting wheel. Thus, instead of prying the cover off, you simply saw it enough to get the casing to open. Don't use a hacksaw for that, though, it will come out wicked ugly.

1200s don't look bad lacking the cover (see that image of "Have a Nice Day" written on the front of someone's 12K). A 1200 without a cover also has a bit more intimidation factor, as most people will assume it's been K modded. XN removed the cover for his 12K and it was common practice among old school modders.

Word of warning, if you get the cap and cover off, but the gun still won't open, check under the purple trigger handle guard for a hidden additional screw. Nibordude's 1200 MK2 had one of these little f*ckers and he tried to get the handle guard out with a knife, which worked, but almost took his finger right off. With a thin enough object and enough leverage, the whole guard will pop off. If you choose to use a blade, I claim zero liability and this post never existed.

Once you get in, the procedure should be pretty straightforward. If you've k-modded a 2100 or 1000 before, it will look a lot like those. If you're unsure which valve to cut for a PRV, pictures are available, but it should present itself pretty obviously (it can actually be a different color than the check valves).

Other word of warning, be very careful with the firing pin when messing with it to put rubber bands on and taking the internals in and out. If the trigger doesn't pull the pin all the way to the back, don't make it. It's possible to get the valve stuck open so hardcore that a rubber band repair will fail, even with 4 layers. At that point, you need to replace the spring or the whole pin mechanism, which would require opening the trigger valve and another pandora's box. It's such as easy procedure that my first 1500 remains open in pieces in a "to do later" queue (it's been like 5 years). I suspect this is what actually killed my 60ft shooting 21K monster (I tested it a lot at different balloon levels by pulling the pin with the gun open). However, this concern shouldn't be a big deal, just handle the internals with caution as you would under normal common sense.

Hope that helps. If necessary, I have pictures of the whole process for K-modding a 1200, minus PRV. That was back in the ambitious days when I wanted to write an article for K-modding each type of spherical CPS gun, since I'd done them all including the 1-3-5. The gun in that guide is actually the same one I brought to the community war. It performed pretty well for balloons that were layered in what I think was 2005 or 2006. That thing's a tank that has been abused in pool water, stream water, river water, Thunder Gulch water, hard local water, been dropped, thrown, cached, floated, swamped, rained on, exposed to extreme heat in my current attic for 3 summers, extreme cold in 2 basements for at least 5 winters, gone through multiple paintjobs, and yet it still works perfectly with long range and has never had to be repaired. 1200s are beasts of durability, which is why I have 5 of them, lol.

[SEAL]

Wow, thanks for writing that for me! Now I will head to my workbench, screwdriver in hand.

Update: I got it open. The pump cap was not glued; it had a lip under it that kept it on, but with some vise-grips and a flathead screwdriver, it came off easily. The nozzle cover however, was indeed glued on, and after a lot of prying with no success, I just used a cutting wheel and cut the case off. But when I had it open, I took it outside to clean it off and to see what the problem was, it suddenly started working again! Now this has happened before, but it would always get stuck again afterwords. So while it's not totally unworking (Couldn't think of a better word.), it certainly seems to be very unreliable at this point. I couldn't locate anything that looked like it was causing the valve to randomly stay open; the inside looks pretty much normal. So what do you think I should do?

Also, I found out that I don't have any balloons, so I won't be able to K-mod it until I get some.

[martianshark]

I had an MK2 then.

Either leave it open until you get some balloons, or close it up and worry about K modding later. Whatever you do, don't forget the rubber band mod. It will make sure the valve shuts when you let go of the trigger.

[DX]

Well, the spring that does the heavy lifting is inside the valve; you can't really see it. A gun that is pump-shooting will look normal. Definitely worthwhile to try the rubber band repair. Use the short, but wide bands found in the fresh veggie section in a grocery store. They are usually purple or beige.

I'd leave it open and do the repair and mod at the same time. The whole thing can take less than 2 hours now that it's open.

[SEAL]

The problem is, I can't access the main part of the valve, because the nozzle cover is still holding the front end on. Should I just break it off? There's a screw underneath it.

But I won't likely do anything with it until I get some balloons. Just regular party balloons will work, right?

[martianshark]

You have to break it off. Unless you can find another way.

[SEAL]

Alright, I broke it off, but there's no way I can get to the inside of the valve. I hope you didn't mean the spring on the outside of the valve; I wouldn't have had to smash the nozzle cover if that was the case.

[DX]

You only have to worry about the inside of the valve if the rubber band repair fails. And it is the spring inside, the one that helps close the valve. I actually don't know the point of the spring outside - the trigger pulling mech rests on it, but I don't see why the spring part is necessary.

Party balloons work great, the 72 packs. The color does not matter, but make sure the quality is high. The 72 packs have rather large balloons that appear kinda shiny in the packaging. They are the perfect size for all spherical bladders, are easy to stretch, and have a failure rate of only 1-3 per bag. One of my 21K's was made using all 72 balloons, breaking none. If you are patient and careful layering them, they should not tear. They are also easy to delayer, but if you test the gun at various balloon counts, don't forget the part about not pulling the pin any farther back than the trigger would normally. That still applies for if you stick the trigger in and test, make sure it's aligned as normal.

[SEAL]

I got some balloons, and I layered 20 of them on so far. I was going to put 30 of them on, but I heard you have to cut the PRV if you put 30 or more balloons on. So here's what I want to know:

1, Will 20 still give me good power? I want at least 50 feet out of it.

2, If I do have to add 10 more, do I absolutely have to cut the PRV? I'd rather not, but I will if it's a problem.

3, I may sound stupid, but which one is the PRV? I'm guessing it's the one that's sticking out farther than the others (Can't really think of a better way to put it.), but I don't want to cut the wrong valve.

I also found some big rubber bands, so hopefully the firing valve won't be a problem anymore.

[cantab]

You have to disable the PRV if, when you try and pump the gun, it activates before the pressure chamber is properly full.

[DX]

My CPS 12K MK1 has 30 or 35 balloons (don't remember which) and shoots in the mid 40's (it looked like 46' terminal at the community war, as it beat my 10K by several feet and that hits 44'. I've found that for an MK1 with the PRV intact, 30-35 is the middle of the range curve. With 45 balloons, there was actually less range because the PRV kicked in too early. The PRV kicks in earlier on an MK2, where precisely I don't know personally, but people have said 20 or 30.

Cut that:



In the neanderthal days of K-modding, people would lop off the whole PRV, but actually it's better to cut the most thin area out instead. Less space to plug up, less chances for it to leak. If you find that the middle of the PRV is in there and it's a mess, then cut further out.

[atvan]

In the neanderthal days of K-modding, people would lop off the whole PRV

So totally sigged.

Good luck SEAL.

[SEAL]

DX: Well I'm glad I asked, because I would have cut a different one. I guess I'll go ahead and cut it, and increase the amount of balloons to maybe 35. What should I plug the holes with? Epoxy?

Update: I cut where you said, and there doesn't seem to be anything unusual about it, except that there is some kind of blue thingamabob in one of the holes (I can take a picture if you want.). Is that something I should remove?

As for the PC, I added 15 more balloons to it; it's now at 35. I also had a very hard time getting it back into the case. For one, I didn't cut the balloons short enough, so I had to slowly cut them back. Even after that, I had to use vise-grips to hold the PC case closed while I screwed it shut. Is that normal? I know when the last screw came out (When I was first opening it.), it sort of popped open.