The general ball valve repair thread (Max-D's and WW valves)

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HBWW
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The general ball valve repair thread (Max-D's and WW valves)

Postby HBWW » Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:34 pm

Unfortunately, I can't get pictures right now but I can still give general repair procedures on repairing these.

First, some basics on the ball valve and how these triggers work.

Ball valve: A valve where a ball rests in a portion of pipe. The ball has a hole in it and by rotating this ball, water can be allowed to go through the hole or can be blocked. Used for applications where maximum water flow is needed; delivers great performance on water guns. Ball valves open slowly and are not good for pneumatic (pressurized air) applications.

The ball valve has am arm attached to it to facilitate opening and closing. It usually rotates with a range of up to 90 degrees of movement. In water guns, a spring must be used to close this valve.

On Buzz Bee Toys' Water Warriors water blaster, the spring is usually directly attached to the arm, or it is attached to another arm that attaches to the valve's arm. A wire is connected to the actual trigger that you pull with your finger, and the pulling opens this valve. The Max-D trigger, used by Hasbro's Super Soakers, operates a bit differently. A series of rotating pieces is held together by a spring and when pulled; the valve does not open until you pull back to a certain point. At that point, the valve immediately snaps open completely. This method requires more force and does not allow users to open the valve partially for low powered blasts, but it also ensures consistent and full performance on every shot.

Internal pictures of the Flash Flood, which features two Max-D triggers, can be found here.

The most common problems with ball-valve powered blasters are the following:
- The closing spring snaps (more likely to happen on Max-D's)
- Closing spring wears out significantly (slight wear-out is not a huge problem; this happens on both Max-D's and WW's)
- Ball valve needs lubrication
- Any combination of the above

Now, how to open a blaster is out of the scope of this discussion, but I'll go over that in another thread when I get the time to do it. I will simply address the main issues and put out the most common solutions:


> The closing spring snaps:

- Replace the spring with another extension spring that's the same size, or as close to the same size as you can find. Extension springs might be found in hardware and home improvement stores; it's a good idea to bring the broken spring to the store especially if you don't know how the springs are specified and measured. However, you probably have to search online (try http://leesprings.com or http://mcmaster.com) to find the specific springs you need. Be ready to measure the dimensions and put them in online.

- Replace the spring with a rubber band. It's important to choose a good rubber band especially for Max-D's as bad ones can snap easily. Rubber bands used by orthodontists (for braces) have been reported to work well for the Flash Flood, though I have yet to try them myself and they seem to be very small. (They are however, quite durable.)


> The closing spring wears out:

- Replace the spring as mentioned above.

- Or replace/assist the spring with a rubber band. Assisting usually works unless there's not enough room.


> The valve needs lubrication: Self-explanatory. Sometimes users may mistake a sluggish valve for a worn out spring when the spring still works fine. In this case, lubricating the valve is the answer. A lubricant friendly to plastics and rubber is needed; don't use WD40 unless you want the water gun's internals/seals eaten up. I have two silicone based lubes in particular that work effectively:

- Heavy-duty silicone spray: Spray is needed to get to hard-to-reach areas. Also works if you have trouble with silicone grease.

- Silicone grease: A bit like Vaseline but designed for lubrication, not for skin care. Also more friendly to rubber since it's not petroleum based. Useful for large areas such as the pistons in air pressure homemades, but has also worked well on ball valves. I can't confirm this, but the grease seems to go bad if you're not careful with application and get the mixture messy.

Lubrication can work wonders on a valve when no combination of spring and/or rubber band seems to do the job. It may require regular maintenance though which is why silicone based lubes are best since they create a layer that lasts fairly long.


That's about all I have for now. If you're having trouble with a Max-D or WW ball valve/trigger, or have some more tips for dealing with them, post here.

soakernerd
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Re: The general ball valve repair thread (Max-D's and WW valves)

Postby soakernerd » Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:28 am

I recently fixed up my Blazer. It needed some love. The ball valve was leaking, and the arm had snapped off. I removed the arm and rotated the ball 180 degrees. This fixed the leaking issue. I then epoxied a screw to the bas of the arm, and looped a spring over the head, to keep it closed. Because of the slightly changed angle, the valve spring is more stretched, and closes the valve on its own. The trigger is also much more responsive.

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Re: The general ball valve repair thread (Max-D's and WW valves)

Postby SEAL » Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:44 am

My MD 6000's valve gets stuck, but it's still in one piece. Does this mean the spring is worn out? Lubricating it did nothing.

I'm thinking about just taking off the whole mechanism and installing a better one, but I'm not sure I can.
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Re: The general ball valve repair thread (Max-D's and WW valves)

Postby DX » Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:00 pm

My Defender valve gets stuck sometimes (like at the Community War during random shooting at the picnic table) for absolutely no reason at all.

What we really need, imo, is a way to make a homemade ball valve that is small enough to take the place of the stock ones. Looking at a Buzz Bee valve from I don't even remember what this was, it's definitely possible...just needs the right components.
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers

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Re: The general ball valve repair thread (Max-D's and WW valves)

Postby atvan » Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:03 pm

A scrapping of the mech is very easy. Just make an wire that is long enough to let the valve close fully, and make sure there is enough travel to open the valve fully. If not, it could be possible to use the scrapped piece to make a lever to allow a shorter trigger pull.
DX wrote:In the neanderthal days of K-modding, people would lop off the whole PRV

Well, not that much soakage.

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Re: The general ball valve repair thread (Max-D's and WW valves)

Postby scottthewaterwarrior » Fri May 10, 2013 9:29 pm

Bump! (I'm reviving a lot of old threads aren't I? I guess I just want to get my arsenal in the best shape I can for Soakemore)

I have a question, what is the best way to lubricate a ball valve? I understand what lubricant to use, but how do I actually apply it to the valve? I have determined that the valve on my Vindicator needs lubrication. I tried spraying lubricant in the opening in the side (where the valve arm attaches), but it doesn't seam to be helping. I am planning on taking the valve apart next, though considering my track record with doing stuff like this, I was wondering if there was an easier way.
Would putting silicon spray in the pump and then pumping a lot do anything? I just really don't want to try and dissemble the valve mechanism if I don't have to.

Wait a sec! I sprayed a but more lubricant in and messed with the valve a bunch, I think it is working now. I still need the ruber band to make it close (that has been on there for a while), but it is no closing again! I guess I brought this thread back for nothing, sorry. :oops:
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Re: The general ball valve repair thread (Max-D's and WW valves)

Postby HBWW » Sat May 11, 2013 7:41 am

It's a sticky, it's fine lol. (Plus we're not the NIC.)

I spray ball valves from both sides when possible. You do need to open/close the valve a few times after application for maximum effectiveness.

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Re: The general ball valve repair thread (Max-D's and WW valves)

Postby scottthewaterwarrior » Sat May 11, 2013 11:34 pm

CA99 wrote:It's a sticky, it's fine lol. (Plus we're not the NIC.)

I spray ball valves from both sides when possible. You do need to open/close the valve a few times after application for maximum effectiveness.

Yes, I think this was my problem. I opened and closed it a couple times and then was like "hey it's not working!" This is why I haven't made all of the LEGO stop motions I'm always talking about (though not so much here) I don't have a lot of patience. <- I did not spell that right did I?

How do you make sure to get it in both sides of the valve? I just sprayed some in between the gaps where the valve handle went in and hoped for the best. I didn't even know if that hole would reach the valve itself.
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Re: The general ball valve repair thread (Max-D's and WW valves)

Postby the oncoming storm » Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:39 am

thread revival :D

I have decided to give fixing the last Max-D Secret Strike on the community another chance, as much as the 2003 community hated on this gun it wasn't a bad light primary while the valve worked and was the precursor to one of the greatest light guns of all time, the flash flood.
If you ever bother reading these, I worry for your mental sanity. :oo:

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Re: The general ball valve repair thread (Max-D's and WW valves)

Postby HBWW » Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:18 pm

@Scott: Depends on the blaster. Sometimes you can only get one side or have to use very strange methods to get the other. For example, on the Piranha, I'd have to detatch the PC and other internals to get one side of the valve, reaching the silicone spray can's straw in, while the other side simply required switching to a larger nozzle and sticking the straw through it. Be sure the stuff's safe for plastic and rubber, and open/close the valve repeatedly many times after applying the lube to ensure its spread everywhere. (That sounded dirty.) Anyway, sorry for the insanely late reply.

@storm: Good luck. I grabbed a broken MDSS once, and all it had was a ruptured PC, which should've been somewhat easy to fix with epoxy, at least theoretically. I scrapped down the blaster for parts instead; I think it's a useless piece of junk either way (although perhaps useful for a Nerf conversion if you reroute the air tank systems and make it smaller). The fan blast is always a useless nozzle no matter how you put it, but the first/second gen Orca's didn't get that memo back in '07 and '08. Flash Flood is alright, but the Max-D 6k, Tiger Shark, Colossus, and other blasters are all easily competitive against it.

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Re: The general ball valve repair thread (Max-D's and WW valves)

Postby the oncoming storm » Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:34 am

The Nightfury my custom explorer has a bad valve that gets stuck open, but I solved it by leaving a small bit of pressure (2-3 pumps of air) in the gun for storage.
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Re: The general ball valve repair thread (Max-D's and WW valves)

Postby HBWW » Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:14 am

I've found the exact same behavior on a CPS 12k (that's now broken). I simply stored it with the valve open, but before storing, I have to empty out the remaining water by dry-firing puffs of air. I do that by plugging the nozzle with a finger, then pumping up and releasing the nozzle quickly. This closes the pull valve, and then I can pull the trigger to release the rest of it.

I think the cause is a weak/damaged spring, but that somehow doesn't cause any problems with the shooting; the water pressure manages to close the valve when pumping in (and this helps you prime/remove air from the internals/PC too!), and it never fails to close while releasing the trigger; the pressure can close it just fine. The pull valve on a 2100 I had wouldn't close properly when releasing the trigger with water/pressure left in the bladder, so I guess it may be a matter of slight design differences.

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Re: The general ball valve repair thread (Max-D's and WW valves)

Postby jayblazer » Sun May 31, 2015 10:12 am

I use rc car silicon shock oil to lube my ball valves. just pour it in through the filter screen and then give the valve several turns to lube it all up. works great for me. here is a link to what I use. http://www.losi.com/Products/Features.a ... D=LOSA5213


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