JJA Duels

Discussion of past, present, and future water war events.
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marauder
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Re: JJA Duels

Postby marauder » Thu May 28, 2015 7:27 pm

Don't forget the Blazer. I think the XP Pool Pumper Blaster would also be in that weight class, and the XP 250 didn't get tested enough, so I'd throw that in.
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the oncoming storm
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Re: JJA Duels

Postby the oncoming storm » Thu May 28, 2015 9:43 pm

Seal is risking a permanent ban from this community by dissing the beloved Gorgon. :goofy:

Idle threats aside the Gorgon is an excellent all-rounder weapon, and while it does handle weirdly it makes up for it with good range, versatile (powerful if drilled) nozzles, and field life like the energizer bunny on any setting. I just about mourned it's lose when I broke mine with stupidity, and even bought a 250 to try and fill its role in my armory (work in progress).

I plan currently to fix my Mk2 using 3/4" PVC as the new pump tube and double the ROF. but it had some issues with the selector last I used it that will need to be addressed once I can recall what they were.
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Re: JJA Duels

Postby SEAL » Fri May 29, 2015 10:23 am

Well I'm an admin so I can say whatever I want. Kinda like a tenured professor. =P

In all seriousness, I wasn't dissing the Gorgon. I just dun get the hype after trying it in battle and feeling a little disappointed. I don't remember even getting kills with it, though it was quite a while ago now. Hence why I want to try it out again, or even better, acquire one myself and run it through some duels.

marauder: Knew I was forgetting something. I also forgot about the Krypton. As far as Super Soakers go, the MD 6000 would be a good one; I would totally do that vs. 150, except that my 6000 isn't exactly stock...
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Re: JJA Duels

Postby the oncoming storm » Fri May 29, 2015 12:24 pm

MD 6000 vs an XP 150? I'd say 150 but it would be reasonably close match.
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Re: JJA Duels

Postby DX » Fri May 29, 2015 7:09 pm

From experience, I've found that the Gorgon is dead even with a CPS 1000, 4100, Vindicator, and probably would be even against a CPS 2100, 1200 MK2, and Monster 2001. Keep in mind that I do have a 10.9x, which isn't laminated, but still gets up to 41ft, has shot time, and can be shot empty 5 times, one full PC more than anything else bearing a 10x nozzle. The quad burst is pretty effective and my default skirmishing nozzle, while the middle nozzle has also now been drilled. It's I would guess in the 8-9x size range and has better lamination and shot time than the 10.9x. This is what makes the Gorgon capable of playing in CPS class, it has higher output and higher field life than some of them, but the bad handling and less range put it at a disadvantage against other CPS.

A Gorgon should play evenly against a CPS 1200 MK1, except if two veterans are going at it. Seal said that field life is usually not important in our wars, but field life is what makes that particular blaster punch above its weight. It has the output and range of a 1000 or 2100, the 1:1 pumping of an XP 150, and much higher field life than 1000s and 2100s. The extra field life enables you to fully utilize its strengths, and play evenly against 1500s, 2500s, and 2700s. Gorgon's won't play evenly there unless the pump is replaced and the lamination issues are fixed on the drilled nozzles. A Gorgon with a new pump and smooth nozzles therefore, *should* then be a match for any CPS.

MD 6000 vs 150 is easy - just wait until the 6000 breaks. Seal's is the fist one I've seen last for any real length of time, I went through several in one season.
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers

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Re: JJA Duels

Postby marauder » Fri May 29, 2015 11:18 pm

At some point this thread may need to be split. In regards to the field life discussion, I provide the following example... can a CPS 1000 20 minutes of intense fighting a Gorgon without having to go refill? Yes. But how? By taking much fewer shots. An easy analogy would be one team with several power hitters going against a team with no power hitters but a high batting average. The teams are probably equal, but for different reasons. A gun like the Colossus 2 would be a team whose primary batters are good at getting on base, but isn't very deep after that. A CPS 2000 would be like having Babe Ruth and a team of scrubs playing together on a farm team, you only get one shot, so you better make it count.

Fortunately for us water wars aren't required to last a certain number of innings or time or whatever. Our flexibility is what makes this sport so great. It's also why you could technically win with a Colossus 2 against even a CPS 2000 under the right circumstances. Refilling has not played a very large role in our wars so far. I have a strong feeling that this is going to change soon. In all of my experience, prior to the community wars, refilling was always a major hurdle to overcome. Since it's the NHL playoffs I'll throw in one more. The more shots on goal you have the more likely you are to win. Plain and simple. If I can take more shots against you without refilling or running out of pressure I'm probably eventually going to hit you (see SEAL's Colossus vs Scott's Colossus 2 @ MOAB).

Duxburian wrote:MD 6000 vs 150 is easy - just wait until the 6000 breaks. Seal's is the fist one I've seen last for any real length of time, I went through several in one season.


The 6000 is such a great gun. Its durability is really a shame. Hasbro actually had really good intentions with that line. They were all about power. Quality of production is king in the long run, however. If we could reproduce the max d mechanism in brass or stainless steal, along with stronger springs, this wouldn't be a problem. Actually, there is no if about it. This can be done, it's just a matter of money. Also, SEAL's MD 6000 is epic, and I wouldn't mind seeing how it does against other guns. Duels don't just have to be about one stock gun vs another. It's helpful to see just how good your mod is.
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jja
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Re: JJA Duels

Postby jja » Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:13 am

Round 4 Colossus 2 (PC intake mod, Nozzle drill and 30 pumps of pre-charge) Vs Gorgon (30 pumps of pre-charge)

This Rematch was fought to test the effectiveness of my PC intake mod described here http://waterwar.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=151&t=6760&p=60672#p60672. Similar rematches with the modded Colossus 2 will likely to occur to test validity of the improved results seen in this battle.

Results Gorgon 8, Colossus 2 7

round 1 (i have the Colossus 2) Gorgon 3, Colossus 2 5
round 2 (i have the Gorgon) Gorgon 5, Colossus 2 2

Analysis last time these guns battled the Gorgon smashed the Colossus 2 10 to 3, this time things were much more even. The Gorgon is still much more powerful than the colossus 2, but its additional weight and bulk slow the user down. The Gorgon has a stiff pump but that didn't seem to be a great issue in battle. The modification to the Colossus 2 ensures greater consistency of power as the battle progresses. Before one had a short window of opportunity to make hits before too much air was vented into the reservoir, once that expired the colossus 2 no longer could challenge the Gorgon. Now the Colossus 2 does not vent air the window of opportunity is extended throughout the entire battle as it is quite easy to keep the colossus 2 at full power as it tap-pumps at 1-1 (perhaps better). With full power available most of the time the colossus 2 can defend well against the gorgon, also it can take advantage of more opportunities to go on the offensive,and is more deadly when doing so than before modification.
Last edited by jja on Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:48 am, edited 2 times in total.

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the oncoming storm
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Re: JJA Duels

Postby the oncoming storm » Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:38 am

I note and applaud your dramatic improvement to the Colossus 2's performance allowing it to be competitive against the Gorgon. However as the round by round scores show the Gorgon is still a superior primary, and with a closer skill disparity between duelers would have won more soundly.

Finally I always found that my gorgon's usable shot time was best with around 40 pumps of pre-charge, even allowing for two or three 10x tap shots before range dropped off to much.


I think next on JJA duels priority list should be Colossus 2 vs a WWN league Gorgon (with 3/16's "5x" and 1/4 "10x" nozzles). I actually know what size of nozzle DX used on his gorgon (only because I used the same one and he followed suit) and it's a 3/16's which while it is slightly larger than a 11/64's CPS 5x with an AP gun like the Gorgon actually rivals a 1200 mk1 for output and range.
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