Hydroblitz 2014

Discussion of past, present, and future water war events.
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scottthewaterwarrior
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Re: Hydroblitz 2014

Postby scottthewaterwarrior » Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:13 pm

Having rounds planned out before hand works out much better. I didn't do this at Sokemore and it didn't work out too well. OHK and OHS are really easy to set up, though for anything like CTF or outpost I would recommend exploring the battlefield and deciding where flags will go ahead of time. If you have any good defense positions, one flag CTF is really fun.
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Re: Hydroblitz 2014

Postby DX » Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:53 pm

Even with a written playlist, you need to be prepared to wing it. It quickly became apparent that the factory at Frozen Fury couldn't support the playlist, so I decided to cut my losses and move us to Northgate. This worked out because we got such a late start the next day. However, the long drive, the need to coordinate with others coming from other places, the cold weather, and the steep hike for a mile in took its toll on the rest of the playlist.

We need to design rounds that better match the venue. 1 flag CTF worked very well with those buildings the way they were configured. It's a very flexible gametype that remains playable when you don't have enough people for normal rounds.

My first try at Outpost worked as intended. The mansion side had an advantage if it could control the middle bases, but the west side had an advantage if it got to the middle first. The latter is what happened and the battle was very even until we saw Ben down below chasing Sam from base to base. You definitely need to plan Outpost ahead of time and know exactly where you want the bases to be. The number of bases you choose vs the number of players on each team impacts how it plays, too. I liked having more bases than players per side because it made everything more vulnerable, it opened up momentum swing opportunities. I actually think I enjoy Outpost more than CTF or Domination because it is less likely to stagnate. There isn't a specific capture order or defensive choke points. If you want it more chaotic than Northgate, widen the playing area. If you want it more controlled, reduce the width.
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Re: Hydroblitz 2014

Postby HBWW » Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:50 am

the oncoming storm wrote:While the SS Liberation Front will lack it's elite core (M4, and DX), I am still planning on doing the rivalry round with some friends and CA99.

Does anyone have round suggestions, or will we come up with those Ad Hawk?


You, your under-armed friends, and me, vs. the core SEALs team who's used to dealing with DX and marauder. Sounds like a plan!

Anyway, I'll throw out a little grab bag/list of games to pull from, but may have to come up with objective locations on the spot. This is where potential problems occur; when unbalanced objective locations are set. However, after doing this with some success in Frozen Fury, I'm somewhat more confident this time, but I have to review the map/street views. Playlists are just guides, and must be flexible enough to give in to what the players want to do at a given time as well as adapt to changing field and game requirements. The ability to come up with good game setups on the spot is as important as having a solid idea of what may or may not be possible going in.

Storm, with all that uncertainty in the games planning, you may want to officially appoint someone in charge of helping to plan things out. SEAL or I could do this.

Anyway, I gotta be honest, there are a number of red flags here right now. We're not 100% certain on the quality/usability of the field, the host wants to try a ridiculously outmatched rivalry, lacks sufficient armament (I'm less receptive to loaning now, given how easily these things break), and has to skip combat time for Sunday school. There are a number of loose ends to lock down here if we want this event to be successful, and those of you who have been to more community wars than I have should know this better than I do.

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Re: Hydroblitz 2014

Postby marauder » Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:54 pm

Storm could you post some pictures of the proposed battlesite?
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Re: Hydroblitz 2014

Postby SEAL » Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:56 pm

To make a successful playlist you REALLY need to visit the battleground and look over everything and plan out games. If possible, have a couple skirmishes to get a feel for the terrain and find out if there is anything that will detriment gameplay (like chokepoints with only one way to attack). I can try to help come up with games if I have time, but I really would need to be there in person. And no, making up games on the spot does nothing but waste time, and the games don't always turn out well.

So how many people are coming to this? I don't think it's worth the drive if there are only like six participants, even if I'm already going on a road trip (which I'm not 100% on yet).
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Re: Hydroblitz 2014

Postby HBWW » Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:08 pm

1-flag CTF at the foundry was planned on the spot and it was quite possibly the best game I've played at all the community wars I've been to so far. Have to keep in mind that a game may be just fine, and that it's the player balance and numbers that affect it. Although we'll all get better at this as we get more experience with game setups in general.

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Re: Hydroblitz 2014

Postby DX » Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:33 pm

1 flag CTF was created to give us something to do while waiting for people to go back to the cars for food. It's nice that it works as a "real" gametype and a more fun alternative to Hold the line, but that wasn't the original intention. I'd have to agree with Seal, when I make a game up on the spot, it doesn't go well. I forgot that the upstairs connection at the factory didn't connect on the left side and that ruined the whole line of gametypes there. You absolutely need to know the playing area inside and out and remember the small details like that if you're the host.

Before finalizing Pandemonium and future Frozen Fury venues, I intend to battle test them first. Even a not so fun 2v2 skirmish can bring out problems early enough to make changes. I would strongly recommend skirmishing the Hydroblitz playing areas before having people make that long trip.
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Re: Hydroblitz 2014

Postby SEAL » Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:46 pm

There are exceptions, but more often than not coming up with games on the spot gives us rounds like assault-the-restroom HTL at MOAB or the naval battles at Soakemore. In other words, games that make you actually want to stop playing. I've found that planning a war is like engineering a product; you want to make sure you do as thorough and as good a job as possible so that once you present your efforts, people will want to come back for more. I know some people who are willing to go to community wars, but aren't really into water warfare at all. I'm hoping to get at least a few of them to come to community wars this season, and when that happens, the rounds need to be good or else those people will think water wars are boring and never come back. I think giving guests a good first impression is EXTREMELY important. You want them to come away from the war talking about how awesome and fun it was (telling their friends), not talking about how the hosts had no idea what they were doing and only got three or four little 15-minute fights wherein both teams just stared at each other the whole time.

Sorry for ranting, but we really need to do a better job at putting events together. I admit that I am getting a little fed up with all the (totally avoidable) B.S. that happens at community wars (my own included). I mean, I don't mean to put the pressure on the oncoming storm, but for this war I would be driving farther than I ever have in my entire life and spending money that I am notorious for hoarding. That means it has to be good. The number 8 is key here; there need to be at least 8 good players, and we need to spend at least 8 hours a day fighting. As I said earlier, if you have any questions about hosting, by all means feel free to ask me.
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Re: Hydroblitz 2014

Postby HBWW » Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:19 pm

Duxburian wrote:but that wasn't the original intention.


That's the problem; can't make assumptions about how games will play out, which is why we have to be more open to trying different games.

Duxburian wrote:You absolutely need to know the playing area inside and out and remember the small details like that if you're the host.


But if you don't, and something unexpected happens, the plan has to be flexible enough to make things change. I will admit I was guilty of assuming that there may have been another route in the Factory CTF, or that we as a team would've tried to make the move of breeching through the doorway quickly to break the stalemate.

SEAL wrote:There are exceptions, but more often than not coming up with games on the spot gives us rounds like assault-the-restroom HTL at MOAB or the naval battles at Soakemore.


I made a number of suggestions for tweaking the naval battles or for the restroom HTL game to make them more interesting, and no one regarded them at all. They would have unbalanced the game a bit, but it didn't matter that much since they were asymmetrical games in the first place, and there's other possible tweaks to re-balance the game.

SEAL wrote:I think giving guests a good first impression is EXTREMELY important. You want them to come away from the war talking about how awesome and fun it was (telling their friends), not talking about how the hosts had no idea what they were doing and only got three or four little 15-minute fights wherein both teams just stared at each other the whole time.


This is likely how I lost a good number of potential players, but there's also no real gauge of quality here either. I thought MOAB was quite fun, but it's not something I'd want to repeat exactly again. The OHS in the typical woods game is getting a bit stale for me already; we need different dynamics to shift that game in order to make it interesting again. Some places such as Legend Park Woods, only really work one time.

The problem is, if anyone is expecting a guarantee that a war/game will be good, that's just plain naivety. We can improve our processes, but there will always be the possibility of something going wrong. When that happens, we need to be able to quickly adapt the game setups and/or use a fallback plan. We also need cohesion; the war host must make clear who's in charge of game planning or make the decision of delegating the calls on what to play when others bring up suggestions. Attempting to stick to a plan too rigidly results in another Downpour 2013. Not planning at all results in a Soakemore 2013. Having the right mix of planning and flexibility (not to mention kickass battlefields) results in Frozen Fury 2013.

This is not to discourage or discredit the extensive efforts you guys are making to plan out games, or to test out different setups only to point out the following:
- We need to improve our ability to setup and play games on the spot no matter what.
- We need to be able to break from a plan if it isn't working out.
- We need to be able to tweak game rules even if it seems jarring or unfair to do so.
- Testing is not foolproof, as different players and number of them will shift how a setup functions. (Albeit often in somewhat predictable ways.)

Straight-up finishing a game isn't the best use of time, although it does result in completion. The alternative is to try more ballsy moves within a game; take more risks at the expense of loosing a game, but that never happens. Still, the role of player actions on breaking a stalemate is there, even if the game's setup is a much more important role.

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Re: Hydroblitz 2014

Postby the oncoming storm » Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:20 pm

The war is scheduled for a thursday - saturday as so that me and my 5-6 friends can all be present for the whole war. As for round decisions I will defer to the judgement of battle hardened members like seal
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Re: Hydroblitz 2014

Postby HBWW » Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:24 pm

In that case, I'll have to drop out. Don't want to take more time off work than I should have to. I'll post back here if that changes. (Originally, I thought it'd be typical community war schedule.)

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Re: Hydroblitz 2014

Postby SEAL » Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:43 am

Thursday through Saturday (assuming you mean 20th-22nd) actually works really well for me 'cause I'm useless and don't have much of a job. But again, I only really want to come if we have at least 8 people (including me). We need to get a head count.

I will do my best to come up with games based on Google map views when I have time, but I can't promise that they'll be good because I can't actually visit the site. I think this event should be similar to Nerf wars in how it's held, but of course with more serious rounds, because we're effing water warriors. Naturally oncoming storm has the final say in matters, but I'll try to come up with a proposed plan when I get the time.

Where would we be staying? Are there any campgrounds around? I definitely can't afford a hotel.
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Re: Hydroblitz 2014

Postby scottthewaterwarrior » Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:41 pm

I will have to check with my Dad, but it is possible that we (my dad and I) could combine this with a trip to visit his cousin in Kentucky. Don't know where she lives in Kentucky, but where ever it is Tennessee would still be closer then my house to her. I might see if Bela could come too, but I will have to ask him. As far as loaner guns go, I'd rather not hand out my CPS 2500 to anyone I don't know, but I could arm your friends with Vindicators and a few midsized CPS blasters (I have 7 CPS 1200 sized guns currently working).

As far as game types go, taking pictures of the battlefield would really help us a lot (for Soakemore this year I plan to make a map marking hills and notable locations for both Sycamore Island and Carderock). I find maps showing the terrain and locations of structures really help for planning out game types - even more then pictures of the actual place in my opinion.
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Re: Hydroblitz 2014

Postby marauder » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:16 pm

Sorry guys, but I'm not going to be able to make it.
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Re: Hydroblitz 2014

Postby scottthewaterwarrior » Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:06 am

Big problem with this event. My dad isn't going to be in town until late Thursday night (for it to have worked we would have to leave by Thursday morning). I am not available any other times until summer and am not willing to make a 7 hour trip by myself. The farthest I have ever driven solo is about an hour and a half and even if a friend came, none of them can drive. If it was somewhere I had been before (like driving up to Frozen Furry) I'd be willing to do it, but I'm not comfortable attempting my first ever solo trip to somewhere I have never been. If any one else from Maryland is coming, or someone who will be passing through MD is willing to pick me up (I'd be happy to split the driving), I could come, but otherwise it doesn't look like I will be able to make it.
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Re: Hydroblitz 2014

Postby SEAL » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:04 am

I might be able to pick you up but I'd have to figure out the situation first. I'll try to get things squared away ASAP, but again, I would like to get an idea of how many people would be coming, and where we'd be staying. I'm not sure how much time I'll have to come up with round suggestions either; someone else might have to help.
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Re: Hydroblitz 2014

Postby the oncoming storm » Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:20 am

sorry for not replying earlier

Seal Unless my parents wouldn't mind you our small backyard, I can't think of anyway you could camp (They are very suspecting people). Also is anyone still interesting in going?
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Re: Hydroblitz 2014

Postby SEAL » Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:22 pm

So if your parents have an issue with me camping in your backyard (wouldn't really blame them if they did), what would I do? I can't afford a hotel unless someone else wants to share a room and split the cost (as long as they don't snore).

I have no idea whether or not I'll be going at this point. I want to, but we really need to get things together and come up with a plan. We need to know who's coming, where everyone is staying, and a schedule of rounds. I thought that I'd be able to help with the last one but at this point I'm just too f***ing busy. Sorry.
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Re: Hydroblitz 2014

Postby zeda.beta » Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:28 pm

I would be so psyched to go to this war, but the problem is I still have classes on friday and then I leave saturday on my flight back home. Basically no way to attend this time, but hopefully the next one will work out better.
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Re: Hydroblitz 2014

Postby HBWW » Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:58 pm

Check the 2014 Community Wars thread for further events. We don't have dates scheduled yet, but these events will be more populated and take place in more interesting fields.


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