Frozen Fury 2013, NY/CT Epic Fall Water War

[the oncoming storm]

DX could invite some nerfers to come to the war and that could more than double the number of attendees if they take to it.

[DX]

If I can't entice them to come in beautiful summer weather, there's not much of a chance in December. I could be proven wrong, but I tend to base these things on the lottery, and I have never won the lottery...

I *really* don't want to do 8 hour+ OHS in Paine. I've been exploring it daily and have found *vast* stretches of wilderness that I've never been to before, on both sides of the park. Even if all that is somehow made out of bounds, which is difficult to tell in many places, there's still so much space to hide in the core areas. Paine has so many trails that peel off to nowhere and is such an irregular shape with nooks and crannies in the corners of the map where you can just vanish off to. You can't force teams to engage, except by design. It would work in a place like Waterbridge, which is very narrow and not too long, with limited movement options and an internal design that funnels teams into each other constantly.

At this moment, I'm leaning toward keeping the original schedule and saving the super rivalry round for another war, maybe at Waterbridge or in NYC.

[marauder]

At this point the only way I would make Waterbridge next summer is if I get a ride, which I guess is plausible, but even then I'm not sure if I could be gone overnight. Well, it's best to take things one step at a time. Perhaps we could consider using just one stretch of Paine for an 8 hour war. We could section off a very narrow area with engineering tape markers every so many feet. That way we could get a nice mix of terrain but it would be narrow enough to force a fight. I also still like the CTF idea where you keep the flags on you.

[SEAL]

Why not just use the same boundaries as we used there last time? That seemed to work okay. I wouldn't want to restrict them any further because, you know, 8 hours is a loooong time. The longest round we've had at a community war was what, 2 hours? I definitely am not a fan of narrow fields either because they force teams to meet head-on and usually result in those much-beloved Mexican standoffs or stationary fighting. That OHS round last Downpour in between Thunder Gulch and Lost Chasm is a perfect example.

Though I am cool with doing this sort of thing another time. Next year I'm thinking we should focus on doing big wars in the NYC and DC areas, where there is no one host; everyone pitches in. We could do rounds like that then if there is enough interest and participation. I don't care when we do it, I just want to do it.

[DX]

Be careful what you wish for when it comes to maneuver warfare, because I've discovered a nearby park that offers it. Branch Brook would be a "Goffle" style experience, a linear park with a central brook and several offshoots. Unlike Goffle though, it is far wider, with scattered hills that don't just go up the sides of the park, they kind of fluctuate more. The hills vary from rock outcrops to gentle rises. They all have at least one weak approach to them, usually on the north or south sides. Thus, it is a park where engagements would shift quite a lot.

I took hundreds of pics this afternoon because the place was love at first sight. It has many features that we long to find in a water war park: Parking lot very close to the playing area, fairly obscure location so not many people around, clean water source for refilling, lax official park rules, it even has two campsites.

However, it is much longer and wider in person than it looked on the map. 188 acres in a long rectangle shape, unlike Paine's 128 acres, this park makes its total size felt. Two teams of 5 will never find each other without major revisions to the boundaries. It is twice as long as Paine and almost 3 times longer than Waterbridge. It is some 4 times wider than Waterbridge at Waterbridge's widest point. The only places you can even see more than one boundary are the corners.

Paine is still the default venue. It may be kinda boring, but it's so close by.

[marauder]

Could we mark off an area of this new battlefield?

[DX]

Yes, but it can be partitioned in many ways, and the interesting features are scattered all over. I'll either need someone to help rescout and tell me which areas they like the best, or try and assemble a long video walkthrough.

[marauder]

Paine is still pretty good though. It may be best just to section off part of Paine, or even go with the original plan. I really think we need John, Keith, Scott, and Sam's input before making any kind of decision. So Brandon, talk to your brothers and remind Scott to check out this page.

[HBWW]

6 hours to a round is already pushing it for me, although I honestly don't know how far I'm able (or unable) to go. After the last few games however, I doubt I'd go for a night time patrol-instead-of-sleep game. I'll see though; if every single other person is up for, say, an 8 hour round, what choice do I have? (Unless I stay at home anyways lol.)

No idea what the battlefields look like. Everyone knows I'm a sucker for urban warfare though, with lots of cover, popping around, and fast paced action. If we could play at a paintball/airsoft field (or some other place with plenty of bunkers/structures), it'd be great. Until then, pick an interesting area. I shouldn't have to say this, but in winter there will be much less foliage, thus less cover. We need to take care that the playing area doesn't turn into open-field standoffs, nor competitions on who can go higher up a hill and stop the other team from doing so. You guys have more experience on crafting gameplay from natural surroundings, so I'll leave it up to you guys.

[DX]

nor competitions on who can go higher up a hill and stop the other team from doing so.

You'd absolutely love Saugatuck then :p

Branch Brook is a center stream, linear setup like Waterbridge and Goffle. Paine is kind of irregular, but generally more of an M shape, with the main core area being a triangle.

I've only been able to find 2 places so far with structures that also meet the other necessary water war criteria. Long Beach West's 3 abandoned buildings, which are subject to change before December, and 2 abandoned buildings in the Hudson Highlands State Park. Both of these require a good drive and then long walk in, and thus are unsuitable for a main venue on hardcore day. The abandoned factory on Dennings Point is not a long walk, but it is a long drive, and we might not be able to pull it off, legally. There are many CT parks with lots of active structures, but they tend to be in shore parks, which are popular, usually have almost no other cover, and are windswept in the late fall/winter. There are some parks with castle-like lookout towers, but again, long drives, long walks.

Obviously I will keep scouting places, but plan on the main event being local and forested.

[marauder]

Can you put up a few pictures of each of the locations? You could just pull some off the internet for now so we get an idea.

[HBWW]

nor competitions on who can go higher up a hill and stop the other team from doing so.

Just to clarify, I'm talking about what basically happened constantly at MOAB. One team goes up a super-defendable hill, and the other has no incentive to attack.

I'll put up with long drives and walks, as long as we prepare sufficiently beforehand and the area has usable sources. Definitely want to avoid areas without cover, too much wind, and of questionable legality/safety. In any case, do you have pictures? Maps?

[DX]

Lol are there pictures? There are more picshurz than you can handle...that's why none have been posted yet. I took hundreds and have been going through eliminating the bad ones. For Paine, I'm assuming you want the fall pics and not summer. The summer ones look so much better with full vegetation, but the bare fall ones are more relevant.

[HBWW]

More pictures than I can handle? I must not have told you a lot about that internship at city hall I had LOL.

[marauder]

Some pics I found of Branch Brook, make sure you search for the park in CT not NJ







Denning's Point










Just a note on Denning's Point:

THE BUILDINGS continued to waste away until 2003, when the State of New York selected Dennings Point as the site for a new state- and privately-funded environmental research facility called the Beacon Institute for Rivers and Estuaries. The Institute will be housed in the site's mélange of ex-industrial buildings, thus preserving some of the last extant reminders of the Hudson River brick industry. Following on the heels of Dia:Beacon's successful conversion of a former box printing factory into a world class art museum, this project is yet another example of how long-neglected buildings can be reused for the benefit of the communities around them. Where industry once exploited its resources for profit, Dennings Point has now come full circle, as a place of study for environmental protection and conservation - and a successful model for historic preservation to boot.

Comments from people who went there:

First stop: abandoned warehouse near the beginning of the trail. To get inside, we made our way through an opening in the fence and through thorns, taking it like the brave souls we were. Inside, the factory's first floor was basically empty—with the exception of tagged walls, plants and a hanging rope in the middle which Tyler made use of by swinging around and climbing up. After exploring the rooms filled with debris, our attentions wandered to the staircase outside. The entrance to the staircase was locked, but we decided to climb into the staircase by way of broken windows. Alas, we couldn't get into the second floor because of another locked door.

I think Denning's Point is definitely worth looking into. Part of me says it'd be better with Tony and Danny, since fighting in this type of area would involve less running from place to place, and would also be very interesting to them. But on the other hand I don't want to bring them into anything we can get sued for trespassing on. It seems like a lot of people visit the factory buildings though, so it seems safe. We should definitely do a joint recon in person so that we have more than one opinion. We should also look into the legality of playing there.

[DX]

You don't have to go through the fence or outside stairs at the Dennings Point factory. You just walk down a driveway to the left and then into the back of the warehouse. From there, you can access the whole factory, including the 2nd floor and roofs. A small group of people might be able to slip in, but I'm pretty sure the whole peninsula is closed in the fall/winter to protect the bald eagles that come there. I went during the summer, so it was all open and easily accessible. Dennings Point is in Beacon, NY - about 40 min from Easton.

Branch Brook is in Wilton, CT. Right now the water level is very low, exposing lots of large rocks and stuff.

[marauder]

Hmm, it's a shame we don't all live closer because they all seem like good options. I would like to explore Dennings Point at some time, whether this Fall or at some other time. It doesn't seem like we would get into too much trouble there if the only reason it's closed off is due to bald eagle nesting. It would be awesome to film some stuff there. I think if we mixed some of that with what we have from previous battles, especially clips from LBW we can make an epic pure action compilation of our first 3 years as a league. I think we are 1 major war - and some editing time - away from making that happen. I can use imovie at the school library over my Winter Break to edit. Of course, that doesn't mean y'all can't come up with your own compilations.

[SEAL]

Beacon you say? I played baseball there; in fact, we beat Beacon in 2011 to become the league champs. That was a lot of fun. Anyway, that's maybe an hour from me. DX, you up for a scouting trip? Obviously a weekend would be best.

[steelboot..]

Damn, you're still at it! Kudos! Wish I could be there.

[marauder]

Why can't you?