Gorgon vs Blazer

[marauder]

I was just online talking to the oncoming storm about how I need to write a Gorgon review when Tiff suggested that we have a battle. The temperature outside read 98 and our air conditioning isn't all that effective, so the battle couldn't come at a better time.

We climbed down 3 flights of stairs out to the parking lot. Tiff asked me not to shoot her in the face, so I shot her in the back. She turned around and fired at me. The Blazer was on the fan setting! I was about 15 feet away so I got misted. I had to laugh at the look on her face when she realized it and had to switch nozzles. I kept the Gorgon on quad burst throughout the battle and it was a good choice.

Tiff kept running around and I had a difficult time chasing her down as I was barefoot and we weren't fighting on the grass. My goal was to work on my accuracy while firing one handed. I didn't realize how difficult this was versus a mobile target. Most of our (league) wars take place out in the woods where there isn't a lot of running back and forth, just dodging at long distance. We ended up switching guns towards the end. The Blazer was very mobile and easy to fire with one hand. You notice things like this a lot more when you switch guns mid battle. I had filled my Gorgon full of ice before the battle and it felt amazing to get shot so I took the battle to close range, no longer trying to stay dry, we just went back and forth dodging and soaking each other.

At the end of the battle I had a red mark right behind the knuckle of my thumb. I'm going to look at the area right above the Gorgon's grip and see if there's anything I can do to make it more comfortable. The 3 point sling made a huge difference early on with the Gorgon. I don't know the proper terminology for how I was carrying it, but it was much superior to having it slung the normal method, it was like not having a sling on at all when I had to fire but still having good support when I wasn't in the high ready position. I'm hoping this becomes a weekly (read: daily) thing for us to do.

[Nemesis]

Hahaha sounds like a good time! I know how it feels because 2 days ago it was that temperature, and it felt so good to get shot, even without ice in the tank.(great idea btw. Who needs the new arctic shock when you can put ice in a BBT blaster?) It is definately hard to one hand guns when running, it happened to me 2 days ago durring the same little battle i was talking about. That Three point sling sounds interesting, i need to lern more about that. Lol fan blast Weekly or daily battles should be fun for you guys haha.

[the oncoming storm]

Yeah that ice water is evil for soakfests packing twice the "chill factor" of tap water making it feel like more water.

I will have to test it in my CPS 2500 once it arrives and I fix it.

[HBWW]

Water temperature variations do odd things to water wars. The hoses in my backyard hold a decent amount of water, and when that water sits out in the sun for a while, gets real warm. I've been shot at by warm water from said hoses, then cold water from others who fill after the tap's just been run through.

Due to the cramped nature of our battlefield, things are a lot more frantic. Those community war staredowns only last shortly before someone flanks and charges you.

I never 1-hand water blasters since I lack the arm strength. I do it a lot in laser tag though; the added mobility for near hand-to-hand blasting range has been very helpful in those awkward kind of shootouts. I managed to get 3rd, 1st, and 2nd place in the last 3 Laser Quest games I played the other weekend. (500-600 points.) I guess with the weight of the blasters, the mobile advantage of 1-handing them doesn't translate well to water warfare even amongst those with the arm strength for it. (Unless you're 1-handing something at least as light as an XP 270 or Flash Flood.) By 1-handing I also mean without aid from a sling.

[soakinader]

I have to say, I really prefer using the Blazer over the Gorgon, (or the Orca for that matter) even though the Gorgon (and Orca) is better overall. I find that the Blazer is so, so much easier to pump and shoot than the Gorca clamshell design, that it makes up for most of it's downsides. Is it just me or does the Orca in particular have horrible pump lag?
While I'm at it, can I just swap the PC easily from my Orca into my Expedition (Blazer) and get the same performance? The nozzle selectors are identical.
I know DX has done it. What do you think?

[DX]

You don't want to do that because the (2005 version) Blazer bladders are, in fact, more powerful than the Orca ones. This is why I put Blazer bladders in my Orca. The PC cases are identical and can be swapped between the guns without any changes.

[SEAL]

Sounds like fun. I always thought that the Arctic Blast/Shock gimmick was pretty pointless, as you can put ice cubes into most guns with standard-sized caps. Either way, at least at my house, the hose water is so cold that ice cubes don't make a difference.

I personally did not like using the Gorgon at all. It just felt so bulky and awkward, and it didn't seem as powerful as everyone says it is. I never got to use the Blazer, but it sounds better, and I'd probably do better with one (as I recall, I didn't get any kills with the Gorgon).

[marauder]

The HP Gorgon might as well be an Orca mk3, but the AP version performs so differently that it really is its own gun. I would love to have a Blorca vs AP Gorgon duel.

The first part of what Soakinader said about the Blazer is pretty true, it's got great ergonomics. I had to use it in MOAB because my Gorgon wasn't fully put back together after a little repair CA99, DX, and I did. I wasn't suspecting that I would be so good with it simply because the max range is a good 3 feet less than my Gorgon's, but you are right, the ergonomics and CPS like PCs almost make up for it.

SEAL if you ever want to use my Blazer you're welcome to it. I think you'd like it a lot. I would let you borrow it for Downpour but you probably don't need it since you have the Vanquisher and since most rounds will probably be heavy CPS.

[HBWW]

Never had any pump lag on any Orca I've worked with. On the other hand, DX's Gorgon(s) have very stiff pumps. Not sure exactly why.

[soakinader]

Well that's... confusing? Yet interesting. My Expedition(AKA Blazer MK3) has, again, the exact same nozzle selector, and very similar internals, but consistantly gets about 5-6 feet LESS range than my Orca does. Looks like a 2005 Blazer, but not as much power? I would have to do some comparisons and proper range testing, but I would say the Orca performs better than all of my other WW stuff (EG Tiger Shark, Vindicator), and possibly as good as my CPS guns in terms of range.
That being said, the Orca I have is horrible to pump. It has awful lag and gets hard to pump really quickly, not to mention if you fully extend the pump you are never sure if you are going to push it back in or snap it right off. I think I need to look into this...
I am currently trying to think of a way to make the Orca pump tracked, somehow.
Oh Grawd.... one of these days my arsenal is going to explode out of the closet. Then I can do some range tests. XP

[marauder]

I'd love to see the ranges generated by your expedition and Orca. Which mk of the Orca do you have. Please test these soon if you can.

[soakinader]

Range tests are done. Will post a link to the videos on youtube as soon as I upload them. I will be using the Expedition, the Orca, and my CPS 1000 (dubbed "Zero") for comparison. The vidoes are unedited at the moment but I may edit them for clarity.

EDIT: Videos are up.

So this is my secret video. Here you see a concrete patio. I placed the camera 4 1/2 feet above the ground on a workbench. The camera is 26 feet horizontally from the wall, and the step you see is 6" high and exactly halfway between the camera and the wall (13 feet). The 25' measuring tape touches the 3 1/2 foot wall. It's worth noting that I forgot to shoot the air out of all 3 blasters during the first shot; so that screws the results a little. The important thing here to remember is relative range. The camera wasn't moved, and all of the blasters were shot at approximately the same angle.

http://youtu.be/nl5xlWix6Xs
1271
1st test: CPS Zero (5X), Expedition (5X), Orca (5X)
00:15, 00:45, 01:10

In this test you can see the CPS hitting a benchmark of 26 feet flat.
The Orca had a few feet less range than the CPS, about 22-23 feet, whilst the Exp. had about 17-18 feet of range.

http://youtu.be/WoxWNOTWUYw
1272
2nd Test: (Orca and Exp. on 2nd largest setting; ~ 2-3X),
Expedition / Orca / CPS Zero
00:05 / 00:28 / 00:46


I show the Expedition peaking during the first moment, shooting over the 3 1/2 foot (41") wall, and then I show it dropping to about 25 feet for the remainder of the shot. It always does this; I thought that shooting it this way would be more clear than a continuous shot. The Orca shoots furthest for the whole shot, hitting the bottom of the wall and naturally exceeding the 26 feet. Last is once again the CPS Zero, which I aim low initially, then meanders between 25-26 feet.

I have to say, the Expedition always surprises me with that initial 30'+ shot, but on average the range is simply inferior to the Orca. That being said, the Orca leaks, and I can't pump it up to more than 95% without causing it to leak more (the OPRV kicks in still) and if the Orca is capable of that 1 second glory shot, I am sure it would outshoot the Expedition I have.

EDIT: Anyone have any success (or not) watching the videos?

[HBWW]

Interesting results. Would be nice if you did clear the air on everything; forgetting to do so can cost you points/hits in a game. In this case it messes with range tests and makes shot time results completely inaccurate.

Yet despite the slightly superior range of the Expedition and Orca, I've always found the CPS to be somewhat more combat effective. Could just be stream velocity vs. lamination.

[soakinader]

I don't know. If the CPS 1000 had a nozzle selector with a 2-3X nozzle, I would think that it would get ranges as good or better than the Blazer/Orca, and then what?

Yeah, the videos didn't go as planned, but I didn't have a lot of time. Just the first range test is affected by air, though. Any advice for my next video? It would be really easy to film it in the same spot, but I could also go up on the lawn- there's more room there, and it's pretty flat, but I would have to truck a lot of guns up there.

I think it might be fun to K-mod a CPS 1000, and using lots of epoxy, the plastic structure and a nozzle selector from a cheap Water Warrior gun, make it so that the CPS 1000 has access to 2X/5X/10X and maybe even the cross setting that BBT likes to use.

[HBWW]

I wanted to dislike the quad nozzle at first, but it was actually really useful. Has the lamination of a stream with the spread of a riot blast. Thus, BBT isn't the only one who likes to use the quad. (It's a great replacement to the awful fan blast too.)

As for 10k nozzle options, I'd rather explore the upper range of nozzle sizes rather than add small 1x or 2x nozzles to it. An 8.5x could work with the 10k quite well, although it may be better on the 12k due to better HPL/more balloons being possible.

[soakinader]

What other guns use the quad/cross setting? I have only seen the Gorgon, Colossus, and Python 2 with that setting.
Also, I just don't know about using only larger sizes. Certainly 1X is pointless nowadays (unless you are up against Nerf SS crap) but I find 2-3X to have enough bite to make my hits count. One of the few reasons I dislike the Monster X, despite it's many nozzles, is the lack of something conservative. Every setting only lasts for 2 seconds or less, giving you truly few options in battle. I would rather have a long-range, long shot time nozzle (like the 3X on my CPS 1500) a full-power, insta-drench setting (depends on what the gun can handle) and then maybe a few settings in between if necessary (not necessary: 5X,[[8.5X]],11X. The Monster has 2.5X, 4X, 8.5X, and fan, and that works for me.) If I were to consider anything extra it would be in the form of a horizontal sweep/fan blast (I am a fan of the dotted Monster style), a spread/stream setting for area (Akin to the CPS3000 Typhoon, the NSS Scatterblast, or the BBT quad/cross setting) and then something random (I am thinking of a nozzle that has one stream straight, and another hole just above it forcing the second stream at a 30-45 degree angle). Having all 20 settings from 1-20X is pretty pointless. You pretty much only need 3-5 nozzles up to 20X no matter how you slice it.

[marauder]

Dude, I agree with you. The MX has too small of a PC for its nozzle sizes. It could also use a better nozzle (the part of the than the selector). I'm pretty sure this would give it a good power boost and a range increase of around 5 ft. The bladder is exactly the same as the 2500s, but the nozzle is very different.

[soakinader]

Could the Monster X really support a 20X nozzle? I read on dukesoakem that it was originally supposed to have 5-10-20X. If it is the same PC as the 2500 it should be possible.
I'll play around with the Monster X sometime later. I would definitely like to adjust the nozzle selector and maybe even Colossus. I always thought that they used weaker bladders on all the SC guns so that most people could fill it via QFD.

[marauder]

This is a video I took of myself firing Belisaurius' Monster X after performing a repair. I hadn't put the nozzle selector back on it, so it's somewhere around 20x

http://youtu.be/lsV52rFuDfo

You'll note that the MX's ~20x is much more violent and broken up than the 2500's. The nozzles are quite different, and I don't mean the selector plates. Take a look here:
http://hydrowar.wordpress.com/2013/02/0 ... selectors/

The 2000 and 2500 have a pretty long laminator built into it, so does the 1000 below the MX. I'm not sure if the short, less than an inch section between the nozzle aperture and the firing valve is a laminator or not, but either way it's much shorter and less focussed than the previously mentioned blasters.

Some pictures of the PCs:
http://hydrowar.wordpress.com/2013/02/0 ... c-gallery/