how running relates to hardcore water fights

General questions and discussions on water warfare regarding tactics and strategies.
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the oncoming storm
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how running relates to hardcore water fights

Postby the oncoming storm » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:53 pm

Since some members can't seem to see why running is the majority of training I hope this will explain it.

-100m
short rushes in order cover gaps in firepower, land or block kills within squad vs squad firefights (examples, way to many to count)

100 - 400m
rapid flanking, charges, tactical retreats (examples, Moab 2013 AP only round)

400+
Pursuits, evasion and rapid movement of troops (examples Frozen Fury 2012 long OHS rivalry round, Moab 2013 chaos round)
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Re: how running relates to hardcore water fights

Postby steelboot.. » Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:12 pm

Who said running wasn't important?
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Re: how running relates to hardcore water fights

Postby SEAL » Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:39 pm

Nobody as far as I know. Like any sport, winning will be way easier if you're in good shape. You have to be strong, fast, agile, tough, and enduring. It also helps to be smart and mentally strong.
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Re: how running relates to hardcore water fights

Postby the oncoming storm » Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:50 pm

I have everything down pat, mental toughness is the only one I struggle with (ultra-competitiveness only works as long as you have some stiff competition).

and seal I must have misunderstood you

most people on here seem to value speed over strength for water wars, but I digress
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Re: how running relates to hardcore water fights

Postby SEAL » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:28 pm

Thought I posted here earlier.

When I said that I meant that a lot of people (at least from what I've picked up on; could be wrong) only seem to care about speed and nothing else. Being the fastest player on the field ain't going to do you any good if you can't even lift a 2500. Speed is obviously very important, but you need to be balanced to be a good athlete.

I'm pretty strong (though I can't quite pump a Cricket 60 times a minute; that's just brutal) and I have decent endurance, but I'm not very agile. Straight-line speed is about average, and I like to think I'm tough (though it really depends on the situation; I'd rather avoid thorn bushes most of the time, but I'll plow through them if I have to). As for the mental side of things, I'm usually pretty competent, though I can get kind of dopey if I haven't had enough sleep and/or food.
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Re: how running relates to hardcore water fights

Postby the oncoming storm » Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:51 pm

Ha I can give a cricket 40 pumps in under 30 seconds
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Re: how running relates to hardcore water fights

Postby marauder » Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:08 pm

Pumping a cricket like that is more strength endurance than explosive strength or overall strength. You need both. It's kind of like explosiveness vs endurance with speed.
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Re: how running relates to hardcore water fights

Postby DX » Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:37 pm

Rapidly pumping a cricket is honestly nothing, it has tiny diameter, stroke length, and virtually no resistance. Try rapidly pumping a 21K with 95 balloons on it...now that has so much resistance that it shatters the stock, plastic column in the pump handle and requires a metal replacement, which will bend if it isn't thick enough.

Fast pumping is a common skill, it says you have high lactic tolerance in the arms, something every water warrior probably has by default. We run around for hours with heavy blasters that have to be pumped many times against pressure.

You obviously want speed, agility, speed endurance, and endurance if you can get them all. Speed endurance might be the toughest, both to train and to retain, but also one of the most useful for wars. But, you need raw speed to execute moves and chase enemies, agility to dodge, and endurance for long pursuits.
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Re: how running relates to hardcore water fights

Postby the oncoming storm » Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:09 pm

Seal I think you would have learned from DX's earlier posts in the (now moved) fitness disuction in the FF 2013 thread that sprinters tend to be stronger for weight than most people because of the power needed to move that explosively
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Re: how running relates to hardcore water fights

Postby SEAL » Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:59 pm

I did read DX's posts, and yes, I know that hardcore sprinters have to be very strong. But I have seen people that are very fast and also very weak, which was mainly what I was referring to.

And hopefully you all know I was joking about the Cricket. I never actually measured the amount of pumps per minute I can do with X blaster; all I know is that I can fully pressurize a 2000/2500 in a couple seconds. (Maybe like 5, I dunno.) The 2700 takes much longer because you worry about snapping the damn pump handle off.
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Re: how running relates to hardcore water fights

Postby scottthewaterwarrior » Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:15 pm

SEAL wrote:I did read DX's posts, and yes, I know that hardcore sprinters have to be very strong. But I have seen people that are very fast and also very weak, which was mainly what I was referring to.


Currently I am out of shape so I'm not even fast at the moment, but this was me back in the day. I still wasn't the fastest, but I could run the longest out of everybody in my school and yet yet just about no upper body strength. While being able to pressurize guns quickly is important, it still isn't as important as running and agility. Having lots of upper body strength will give you I higher rate of fire, but without enough agility/speed, it wont do you much good if you can't dodge/pursue enemies. This was part of my friend Sam's problem at Soakemore, he could pressurize my 2500 in a few seconds but would always get hit because he lacked the speed necessary to dodge.

I think Downpour 2011 is a good example of the importance of running. When DX, M4, and his cousins ambushed us, we ran like mad. If I had been out of shape like I am now, I never would have been able to keep up with Wetmonkey in our retreat.
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Re: how running relates to hardcore water fights

Postby HBWW » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:09 pm

^ I think it was more of a situational awareness issue than speed. Dodging is often more mental than physical. I dodge way better now than I ever have, but have not exactly gained any speed nor lower-body strength because I don't exercise often. It's also difficult to wear someone out from dodging, because you only have so much ammo. Anyway, part of my improvement with dodging can be attributed to actually caring about the equipment I'm carrying and ensuring it doesn't slow me down. I still consider this a mental rather than physical issue though.

As far as exercise goes, I find that it's much easier to push myself to what I need to improve by being in game situations than by actual exercise sessions. Still need to try out P90X and setup the mentality for it, but games already provide this. Doesn't matter if it's laser tag, paintball, or water wars, the fact that I want to be successful in a game (and the slight social pressure to it when playing with strangers) makes everything else come more naturally. I should invest in playing paintball more often, although I also need to try out NIC Nerf too.

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Re: how running relates to hardcore water fights

Postby SEAL » Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:56 am

I wasn't talking about just upper body strength; more like all-around strength. I'd say core strength is probably the most important, but you obviously want to be well-rounded. There is more to water warfare than just dodging; some wars require you to walk and run miles on uneven terrain, climb trees and/or cliffs, and muscle your way through thick vegetation, all while carrying like 30 pounds of gear. (Not that we've done much like that, but it's my kind of war.) Just being fast isn't enough for that.

Another thing that helps is to have a lot of energy (not quite the same thing as endurance), something which I unfortunately lack (except at night when I'm trying to sleep).
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Re: how running relates to hardcore water fights

Postby the oncoming storm » Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:10 pm

your kind of war sounds like loads of fun, shame we don't have the war attendance to make it work. I have observed that for intense action rounds you need around 1 player acre of playing field (otherwise it's just a huge game of hide and seek)
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