Water Gun Fight event - Suggestion for guns help

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LinWarrior
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Water Gun Fight event - Suggestion for guns help

Postby LinWarrior » Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:33 pm

Hey waterwar.net I need some suggestions for possible combination for a 50 - 100 people water gun fight. ( Mostly amateurs who have no clue about water guns so a majority are nerf super soakers, cheap $5 stock guns from grocery stores but on an occasion maybe a few cps guns )

Limitations:
2 Guns (1 Strap each arm ) and a duffel pack with water bottles to refill.
I dislike water balloons and personally good at dodging and blocking them with my own gun.
General range from each person is about 15 - 25 feet.

My Problem
Earlier this year I went with a CPS 1000 and a duffel bag with water bottles. While strong and would generally win I face several problems I hope I could fix with your expertise.

1. Miss Cps1000 shot and someone with a Nerf SwitchShot/Piston Water gun would just run at me and empty their whole container of water on my face. I could do nothing besides run because of pumps require to shoot back.
2. After each shot I was require to pump a few times before I could attack again. I would love fast attack speed guns.
3. Water supply runs out too fast on my CPS 1000.
4. Is there a gun with a good Shot Time(Constant stream) ? Isoaker.com provides information about this but you can't sort by Shot Time making it hard for me to find.

My Personal Suggestions

Help me choose what would be better when I go next time! I would love your own suggestion base on your experience also.

1. Go with Nerf Super Soaker Switchshot with 3 - 4 Nerf Super Soaker X-Treme Hydro Pack in my duffel bag and my CPS 1000.
2. Go with a lighter gun like the python 2 and a CPS 2000/2500 with water bottles in my duffel bag.

Also how is the CPS 1500 compare to the CPS 1000 ? Is it worth the upgrade ? Is a CPS 2000/2500 ideal in my situation ?

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wetmonkey442
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Re: Water Gun Fight event - Suggestion for guns help

Postby wetmonkey442 » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:43 pm

It all comes down to a compromise. If you choose a water gun with more power, like a CPS 1000, CPS 1500, or CPS 2000, you will experience lower shot times. Smaller, less powerful guns will often shoot for longer. My recommendation would be to purchase a mid-sized water gun, so that you get good performance without sacrificing too much power or shot times. Perfect examples of mid-sized blasters would include things like the XP 150 or Flash Flood. However, those aren't available for purchase in stores anymore. If you live in America, and live reasonably close to a Walmart or a Target, I would recommend getting one of these:

http://www.buzzbeetoys.com/USglobal/Wat ... 14900.html

http://www.buzzbeetoys.com/USglobal/Wat ... 14800.html
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marauder
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Re: Water Gun Fight event - Suggestion for guns help

Postby marauder » Fri Jul 05, 2013 5:32 pm

No matter what gun you choose you're going to have to master 2 techniques to win this battle.

1. Tap shots. Never unload all of your pressure at once. Pull the trigger like you'd be firing a semi automatic rifle or pistol. Squeeze. Release. Squeeze. Release. Once you get this down add some pumping in between. Squeeze. Release. Pump. Squeeze. Release. Pump. That way you never have to pump 10+ times when someone's in your face. This is crucial to master if you're going to use a CPS 1000 or any blaster with a 5x nozzle or greater.
2. Pumping While Shooting. This is for nozzles smaller than 5x. When people get close to you just hold the trigger down and pump furiously at the same time. This allows you to fire continuously like their battery operating guns - but you'll still be shooting more water.

Now. For my recommendations.

#1. Water Warriors Vindicator.
Max shot time: 36 seconds (.5x nozzle)
You will not run out of water with this gun. It has great shot time on the smaller nozzles, but also has a bigger nozzle like your 1000's 5x for dishing out punishment.

#2 Water Warriors Blazer
Max Shot time: ?

#3 Water Warriors Orca
Max Shot time: ?

#4 CPS 1-3-5
Max Shot Time: 24 seconds (1x nozzle)

#5. CPS 4100/Monster
Max Shot Time 5.2 seconds (2.5x nozzle)

#4 Water Warriors Gorgon
Max shot time: ?

#5 Super Soaker SC 600
Max shot time: 11.5 to 19 seconds (1x nozzle)


If you have to buy something in store then get a Colossus 2, but I would not recommend it nearly as much as the above guns. You can find a lot of them on ebay, amazon, or toy store websites right now. The 1500 does have more shot time than the 1000, but not a whole lot. If you have problems with the 1000 I would not recommend it. The 2500 and 2000 are definitely not what you are looking for. The 2700 has great shot time, and holds a ton of water. If you're 15 or older I'd put it up in the top 3, but not so much if you're younger or not used to carrying around a lot of weight.
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Re: Water Gun Fight event - Suggestion for guns help

Postby HBWW » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:31 pm

My advice: Stay away from Nerf SS, by far the worst money grab in water blaster history. Dollar for performance, they are nothing but massive rip-offs. Although actually, the money's going towards useless gimmicks like tiny swappable mags and what not. If you don't have the cash for CPS's, get Water Warriors instead. Colossus may still be around, Python 2 definitely is. Even a Cricket or two could easily take out any Nerf SS, including the Switch Shot, which lacks the range and continuous output to keep up.

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Re: Water Gun Fight event - Suggestion for guns help

Postby LinWarrior » Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:31 am

Wow thanks for the in-depth analysis guys. Pretty impressed. I'm 21 years and pretty athletic so I might look to buy a CPS 2700 like you said. I guess i'll keep my CPS 1000, I only got it cause i liked the form better than the CPS 1500 and was easier to run with. If it isn't much better like you guys say it's not worth the $40 - 50 price tag on ebay.

What do you guys think of a

1) CPS 2700 & CPS 2500 combo ? 2 Heavy to run well with ?
2) CPS 1000 & Water Warriors Vindicator ?
3) CPS 1000 & CPS 2700?

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Re: Water Gun Fight event - Suggestion for guns help

Postby HBWW » Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:37 am

I personally don't dig combos anymore since they slow me down immensely. The largest secondary/sidearm I'll carry these days is a Max-D/Hornet/Cricket. If you're in a soakfest though, then those combos all work, although you may have trouble with #2 since the Vindicator has terrible ergonomics. Using a sling for carrying two blasters is a must for most people, unless you can 1-hand an overloaded 2700 for hours on end.

For soakfests, I've been known to dual wield combo #3 you listed, and have also made use of various others. I guess if there's a soakfest at Downpour, I'll have to dual wield again for the hell of it. (It's fun and feels badass lol.)

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Re: Water Gun Fight event - Suggestion for guns help

Postby marauder » Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:26 am

Where is this fight located if you don't mind me asking? Is this being set up by some type of organization or a town?

The 1500 is significantly better than the 1000 in just about every situation other than the one you are in. The 2700 and Vindicator offer almost the same advantages, great field life, long shot time with a smaller nozzle, and the ability to soak with a bigger nozzle. The difference, of course, is size. The Vindicator would make a great sidearm for your 1000 or 2700. Just keep it on a 1x nozzle or below and switch to it when people get in your face. Unfortunately, I do not see any on ebay at the moment. They are rather difficult to find. If you can't find one and still want to use your 1000 as your primary I would suggest getting an SC 600 to back you up as it does pretty much the same thing as the Vindicator on 1x.

If I had to use only one gun I would go with the 2700. The 2x nozzle gives you over 10 seconds of shot time, but it can cause quite a bit more damage than the smaller nozzles on the Vindicator and other Water Warriors guns. Also, you can pump and shoot at the same time. This won't allow you to fire indefinitely, since the pump volume is less than the 2x nozzle's output, but it's enough to just about double your shot time.

A 2700/1000 combo would bring a lot of power to the table, but then your sidearm wouldn't serve the same purpose as it wouldn't have the shot time of your primary. You could however, use it like a shotgun for when people get close quarters. Take out the 5x and blast them. If they still don't move then switch back to your 2700 and use the 2x nozzle.

I don't see a point in using a 2700 with a 2500. The 2500's shot time on 5x is no better than the 1000's, and it only has 1 larger nozzle (20x) than the 2700. I think the 10x nozzle is enough to thoroughly scare someone if you need that.

Before you fight please consider doing this mod http://hydrowar.wordpress.com/2011/11/1 ... ement-mod/ Large soakfests are the type of environment most conducive to breaking your pump. I used to fight in 30+ man fights and there ended up being a lot of broken pumps at the end of the day. Don't let that be you.
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Re: Water Gun Fight event - Suggestion for guns help

Postby DX » Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:44 am

I would recommend the 2700 as a primary for this. At 21, you should be able to handle it just fine. Huge capacity, huge shot time, and the gun body is large enough to use as a shield and block those tiny Nerf SS streams.

If you really *need* a sidearm, I would go for an XP 150. The 150 is great in a soakfest as you barely need to pump the thing. 8 pumps to full pressure. 0-1 pump per every 5 tap shots. You can hold down the trigger and pump and it keeps on going. Fastest trigger ever, rips off one shot after another with no lag. High field life for its class. Almost always available on Ebay or Craigslist. If no one else brings CPS, the 150 would be a pretty capable primary as well.
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers

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Re: Water Gun Fight event - Suggestion for guns help

Postby LinWarrior » Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:01 pm

This was last months event .It’s located in the New York City Central Park. Generally 500 – 600 people show up every year. The group just had one recently and may be planning another near by in August if NYC Park permits gets through. I'll be glad to keep you updated on that if anyone lives near the New York region.

I included the CPS 2500/2000 because I always wanted one as a kid and am pretty impress with the power. But I agree with you in a soak fest it is kinda useless as you will just get one guy and then have 10 more swarm on you. Not worth the money or situation.

Thank you very much for the input I guess I'll go hunting for a CPS 2700 then.
Last edited by LinWarrior on Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Water Gun Fight event - Suggestion for guns help

Postby LinWarrior » Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:02 pm

I apologize this is the correct link
Last edited by LinWarrior on Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Water Gun Fight event - Suggestion for guns help

Postby marauder » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:33 pm

That's awesome. It's a shame that I'm nowhere near that. SEAL, Duxburian, Poseidon, Wetmonkey, y'all should seriously go.

By the way, welcome to the board! I don't think anyone's said that yet. Also would you be interested in coming to our community wars? We don't get nearly 600 people, but we have a lot of fun, and we're pretty much all around your age. There's a war coming up 2 hours north of NYC later this month and then Frozen Fury will be in Easton Connecticut this Fall.
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the oncoming storm
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Re: Water Gun Fight event - Suggestion for guns help

Postby the oncoming storm » Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:30 pm

Yeah, Tap shoot and get a 2700, and 150 done
If you ever bother reading these, I worry for your mental sanity. :oo:

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Re: Water Gun Fight event - Suggestion for guns help

Postby atvan » Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:55 am

marauder wrote:That's awesome. It's a shame that I'm nowhere near that. SEAL, Duxburian, Poseidon, Wetmonkey, y'all should seriously go.


This sound like just about the ideal chance for us to walk in in full camo, APHs, and CPSs as backup. This is where all those APHs we have and never use would work best. If we (or, as has been thE case,you guys) could actually do this, it would be hilarious.
DX wrote:In the neanderthal days of K-modding, people would lop off the whole PRV

Well, not that much soakage.

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Re: Water Gun Fight event - Suggestion for guns help

Postby DX » Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:33 pm

I would not wear camo anywhere in New York City. I wouldn't bring homemades, either, unless it really looks like a toy. Suits and 2000s, however, would work.
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers

LinWarrior
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Re: Water Gun Fight event - Suggestion for guns help

Postby LinWarrior » Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:16 am

Haha yeah. Homemades would be a problem especially when there are park police and nypd around. It would just be looking for problems with them. Still searching for a CPS 2700 ... Apparently no one selling these things on ebay lol.

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Re: Water Gun Fight event - Suggestion for guns help

Postby HBWW » Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:52 pm

LinWarrior wrote:My Problem
Earlier this year I went with a CPS 1000 and a duffel bag with water bottles. While strong and would generally win I face several problems I hope I could fix with your expertise.

1. Miss Cps1000 shot and someone with a Nerf SwitchShot/Piston Water gun would just run at me and empty their whole container of water on my face. I could do nothing besides run because of pumps require to shoot back.
2. After each shot I was require to pump a few times before I could attack again. I would love fast attack speed guns.
3. Water supply runs out too fast on my CPS 1000.
4. Is there a gun with a good Shot Time(Constant stream) ? Isoaker.com provides information about this but you can't sort by Shot Time making it hard for me to find.

My Personal Suggestions


For some reason, I missed this part of the OP.

Essentially, what's happening here is equivalent to this: You have an automatic AR and your opponents have knives. You are unloading the entire magazine at an opponent in full auto without even trying to aim at all, while he stays in cover and away from your shots. Then he runs up to you and stabs you while you're fumbling to reload. You're basically saying you want to downgrade to a knife (because it doesn't need to be reloaded) or carry another AR (for more firepower) to defeat them.

Step 1: Learn how to aim and shoot. Don't waste ammo. If you're going to hold the trigger down, only do so when you know for certain that your stream will make the hit.
Step 2: Keep moving. If you're getting hit by a Switch Shot when you have almost twice the range, you're probably not moving enough.

In addition, don't think of the water you have in terms of continuous streams, but in terms of water volumes and pumps. A Switch Shot holds 570mL in its mag, with a pump volume of 19mL. That means an opponent has to hit you 30 times in order to empty that magazine. Your CPS 1000 on the other hand, carries 620mL and empties that in 3-4 seconds. 35mL pump means it takes about 18 pumps to fill from empty, which is a bit longer than the time it takes to switch mags, but still way faster overall. (Because your opponent needs 30 pumps as opposed to 18, and each pump he makes has to hit you which is much more difficult because of the miniscule range and "stream" size of the Switch Shot.) Your opponent has to carry 4 mags to match the amount of water in a CPS 1000 tank.

Point is, you can cycle through water way faster than anyone else nearby can, and you can still boost your water carrying capacity by carrying water bottle refills. (You can still shoot and attack while refilling.) Once you learn how to use a CPS, your main problem will be that everyone else will want to gang up on you. Have some water balloons in a pouch ready for that!

So with that said, I wouldn't even bother with switching guns at this point, save for gathering up some CPS's or other good blasters. Get comfortable using them, get used to low shot times, high capacities, high output, and high range. For soakfests, backpacks are generally ideal IMO, but it's personal preference on how much waterpower you want to bring in.

"Main rule: No water balloon slongshots." Fine by me! Get the bike pump and Pringles' cans over here!

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Re: Water Gun Fight event - Suggestion for guns help

Postby marauder » Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:55 pm

Sam, a lot of the time I find your suggestions more theoretical than practical... but that last analogy...

Image
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Re: Water Gun Fight event - Suggestion for guns help

Postby HBWW » Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:15 pm

In 2006, I was getting destroyed in duel soakfests against a rival. I switched back and forth between an Oozinator and a broken 2100 (trigger wouldn't close until pressure empty), because my opponent would always take my FF. Thing is, I eventually realized that the real problem was that I was too slow, as niceas those rubber bands would've been. This case just takes it to a new extreme though. I understand it's a large soakfest event, not a 1HS game, and I don't mean to be an asshole, but this is a CPS vs. a Nerf SS we're talking about. I think we all missed that point (save for marauder's quick tips) and jumped onto suggesting blaster alternatives immediately.

That said, having a CPS collection is always awesome, and the tips above are helpful for that. Personally, I've always been very stingy, and I managed to get a 2700 for $20-30 that way. I'll fork over bigger money for CPS 2000's/2500's/3200's, but it's not easy when I can get so many more smaller CPS blasters for the same price. That said, the small CPS end of my armory is getting crowded. There's room for another 1000 but that's about it; would prefer to expand the upper end.0

LinWarrior, I highly recommend those community wars. You learn quickly from them. You say you're athletic, which is actually a significant advantage that seemingly a lot of athletic people don't make use of in water wars properly. 2011, I consistently annihilated an opponent who worked as a physical trainer at LA Fitness and constantly bodybuilds.

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Re: Water Gun Fight event - Suggestion for guns help

Postby LinWarrior » Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:44 pm

To: CA99
Your analogy is correct. I am looking for a knife type water gun and a better automatic AR if possible. Play a small game with my friends and little brother and my solution to this was basically dual wield the cps 1000 and the python 2 just toss a bottle fill with water if they get too close; apparently it works.

I’ll still look for a cheap CPS 2000 or CPS 2700 for the heck of it though haha.

Also what are your thoughts of Hydration Backpack ? worth it or better off getting a regular backpack ?

I was actually interested in the water war in your community. But I currently do not have a car. How would one reach their from Queens, New York to West Hurley Park (AKA "Dug Hill"), Hurley, NY without a car ?

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Re: Water Gun Fight event - Suggestion for guns help

Postby the oncoming storm » Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:15 pm

A good light primary, not much power but pumps extremely fast

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPER-SOAKER-XP ... 19df06c7bb

alternatives to the CPS 2700 are the Monster XL or Super Soaker 300 (extremely rare, I love mine) they both have gobs of power and long shot time.
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