Duelfest clash of the Titans CPS 2000 vs Super Soaker 300

General questions and discussions on water warfare regarding tactics and strategies.

In a dual till the CPS 2000 runs out which gun would win

Poll ended at Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:12 pm

CPS 2000
4
36%
Super Soaker 300
4
36%
Undecided
3
27%
 
Total votes: 11

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Duelfest clash of the Titans CPS 2000 vs Super Soaker 300

Postby the oncoming storm » Wed May 29, 2013 4:12 pm

This is just to see how we think it would go

My choice is the Super Soaker 300, Pump volumes, shot time, and field life give it a huge advantage
Last edited by the oncoming storm on Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:32 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Duelfest clash of the Titans CPS 2000 vs Super Soaker 300

Postby marauder » Wed May 29, 2013 5:02 pm

I'm abstaining from voting because I think it's based off of circumstance. If you're fighting for 5 minutes I think that the CPS 2000 will win. If you are fighting for 30 minutes in an enclosed area or in an urban area of some sort I'm going with the SS 300. If you're playing for 30 minutes in a big battlefield I think it could go either way.

The guns are both great, but they're also different. I think It'd be great to have both on your team.
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Re: Duelfest clash of the Titans CPS 2000 vs Super Soaker 300

Postby soakinader » Wed May 29, 2013 11:37 pm

So if I leave a CPS 2000 and a SS 300 in a room and come back later, the last one standing wins?
Also, the english troll chalenges you to a duel.
I just don't know how to take this seriously.
The CPS 2000 is crazy powerful but can only make a few shots before it's empty. The SS 300 takes a lot of effort to pressurize (and stay at maximum power) but it can shoot for a very long time. Assuming we have an indestructible SS 300 here, I would say the SS 300 would win as long as the user had time to pre-pump before the skirmish started. I would rather have a CPS 1/15/25/3000 against the SS 300; at least you can make a few quick shots on a setting besides "kill/20X" without losing all of your pressure. If it came down to simply soaking your opponent, the CPS 2000 could do it faster, but the SS300 could do it thoroughly.
Just a random thought: If the CPS 2000 shoots 20X, shouldn't the CPS 1000 have been called the CPS 500? 0_o
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Re: Duelfest clash of the Titans CPS 2000 vs Super Soaker 300

Postby DX » Thu May 30, 2013 12:05 am

I had to go undecided because the conditions would matter a lot in this fight. Even just a little bit of wind shreds the 300's range. The 2000 is far less affected by a headwind, and is extremely enhanced by a tailwind as seen at Soakemore. The 300 is a bit more difficult to use in thick terrain and its stream is easier to block or dodge. The 2000 comes down from full power more quickly, but also goes up to full power more quickly. If there is cover, the 2000 has an advantage. If it's in the open, the 300 has the advantage. It's easier to snap off tap shots with the 2000. In a straight-up duel, the 300's high shot time and large pump should have a 150 vs Colossus effect if you use it right. However, the higher output of the 2000 might turn it into a 150 vs Gorgon kind of thing.
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Re: Duelfest clash of the Titans CPS 2000 vs Super Soaker 300

Postby the oncoming storm » Thu May 30, 2013 6:48 am

DX I detest the claim that 300's are harder to tap shoot than 2000's, in my experience I can tap shoot my 300 almost 2x as fast as I can my Gorgon.
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Re: Duelfest clash of the Titans CPS 2000 vs Super Soaker 300

Postby isoaker » Thu May 30, 2013 8:32 am

From the question, it states
In a dual till the CPS 2000 runs out which gun would win
. Spelling aside, if the time is limited until the CPS 2000 runs out, I'd have to lean in favour of the CPS 2000-user since, well, it could unleash its entire reservoir full of water from a safe distance before the SS300-user could get close enough. the CPS2000 user would fire, run away while repumping, fire again from the safe distance, rinse and repeat until empty. Since the CPS2000 is also lighter overall compared to the filled SS300, the CPS2000 user is more mobile. It get tougher to choose between if time is extended and playing field more restricted, but given the limit imposed, I'd vote for the CPS2000.

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Re: Duelfest clash of the Titans CPS 2000 vs Super Soaker 300

Postby the oncoming storm » Thu May 30, 2013 9:00 am

Isoaker, my 300 has a 3 to 5' range advantage on 2000's hitting 55' consistently (Unless there's wind). Gjiv's 300 hit 53' in range tests and DX and DukeSoakem's hit around the same. My point is that range is about equal between them.

Now a 300 with a small crack in the ball valve gear won't open fully resulting in poorer performance like M4's first 300 and yours.
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Re: Duelfest clash of the Titans CPS 2000 vs Super Soaker 300

Postby isoaker » Thu May 30, 2013 9:14 am

the oncoming storm wrote:Isoaker, my 300 has a 3 to 5' range advantage on 2000's hitting 55' consistently (Unless there's wind). Gjiv's 300 hit 53' in range tests and DX and DukeSoakem's hit around the same. My point is that range is about equal between them.

Now a 300 with a small crack in the ball valve gear won't open fully resulting in poorer performance like M4's first 300 and yours.

Hmm.. were you doing these range tests as tests or in general combat. The CPS2000's thicker stream should provide more consistent range versus the SS300's despite having similar maximum range, especially when you have players moving while shooting. Even if ranges are roughly equal, I'd still lean towards the CPS2000 user. Sure, there's more weight on his arms versus the lighter SS300's blaster with weight more on the shoulders, for most adults in this case, overall weight will end up playing a larger factor in terms of mobility and I can definitely more easily move and aim with my single-piece CPS2000 than with my SS300 with its backpack and hose to have to worry about. Moreover, the additional weight from the backpack actually makes quick turns trickier since it's harder to get started and harder to stop once turning due to the additional weight.

:cool:

Edit: Oh, and I forgot about one other major factor putting the CPS2000 ahead of the SS300: Output. The CPS2000 pushes out at least 4-times the amount of water per second than the SS300 can. Thus, even if both users are just standing there and hitting each other 100% of the time, the SS300 user will get soaked 4-times as quickly. :goofy:
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Re: Duelfest clash of the Titans CPS 2000 vs Super Soaker 300

Postby SEAL » Thu May 30, 2013 10:28 am

Well! It looks like I am one of the few people who can put this to the test. That's assuming I can actually fix my 300. It seems to be leaking out of everywhere, and I still don't know how to open it without destroying it. If I fix it though, count on us having another duelfest to see which is truly more deadly.

Though if I had to guess, I'd probably lean towards the 2000. Like iSoaker said, it has 4 times the output of the 300, and it's more maneuverable. You can simply hit-and-run with it. You can also pump and shoot at the same time. The 300's strength is shot time, which would definitely help in a soakfest, but in OHK or OHS, it's not a big deal, especially if you're playing until the 2000 runs out of water. The 3-5 foot range advantage is insignificant, and some 2000s can hit close to 55' anyway.
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Re: Duelfest clash of the Titans CPS 2000 vs Super Soaker 300

Postby DX » Thu May 30, 2013 11:42 am

DX I detest the claim that 300's are harder to tap shoot than 2000's, in my experience I can tap shoot my 300 almost 2x as fast as I can my Gorgon.


Well, if you flick the lever, it can physically fire triple as fast as a trigger tap shot. But, that will break the lever. 275's have stronger levers and it's less of an issue, but on a 300 or 250 I would not do it. The reason the 300 is harder to tap shoot is you can't pump and be ready to fire at the same time, you would need 3 hands. With a 2000, one hand is always on the pump and one on the trigger, it's always ready to fire. The specific, individual soaker really matters here as well. My worst 2000 shoots well below the average range of a 300 and my best 2000 almost hits 55 ft. Keep in mind that 5-10 MPH wind is enough to take a 300 well below 40ft, while a 2000 is far less affected. Shooting my 2000 #5 into a headwind barely takes it down a few feet. The magnitude and direction of the wind would command this battle.

Stephen, you're falling into the same trap I usually fall into - your personal results will differ from the average veteran user. On average, more people will be more mobile with a single piece 2000 than a backpack 300. The average user will be more comfortable with a trigger, but will find the 300 easier to keep near full pressure.

In terms of a soakfest style duel, I'd much, much rather have the 2000. You'd be able to empty the 2000 and claim end of duel before the 300 can leverage (pun intended) its long shot time and higher capacity.
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Re: Duelfest clash of the Titans CPS 2000 vs Super Soaker 300

Postby marauder » Thu May 30, 2013 11:45 am

There have been some very good points made here that I'd like to revisit and clarify. First DX is right, the 300 is highly affected by wind. I did a good many range tests on the same 300 that the Oncoming Storm bought from me. In a gusty headwind the 300 only shot ~31 feet, whereas the CPS 2000 was rather unaffected. This is probably a combination of output, as isoaker mentioned, and the 2000's insane nozzle laminator vs the 300's lack of a laminator. With a small backwind the 300 was hitting 55 feet. With no wind I consistently hit 50 feet, with splash and spray reaching 55 feet.

Perhaps the Oncoming Storm has cleaned up my 300 a bit since then and it's now able to actually hit 55 feet with a stream. If this is so then it speaks more to how finicky 300s really are. Powerful, yes, but also finicky. The 300 I used at Hydropocalypse had a max range of 41-42 feet. It wasn't until nearly a year later that I learned that that particular 300 needed its internals and nozzle cleaned and also needed a certain level of prepumps to get optimum performance - 50 ft range. Or, perhaps that's not even optimum performance, perhaps you can push the 300 to shoot further than that, but that would further support the argument that the 300 takes a lot care and skill to use as best as possible.

Now, what about combat performance? iSoaker brings up a good point. At what range are you hitting people at? The Oncoming Storm made 2 hits on me in our duel, and they were around max range for my Gorgon, maybe a little further out than that, so I will say somewhere around 42 feet. Most of my hits in Hydropoc were around 40 feet, with some in the upper 30s. The hits I made at MOAB were more in the upper 40 range as far as I remember. Scott, DX, CA99, SEAL, Drench, etc. what do y'all remember? CA99 might be another to ask since he used the 300 a lot at MOAB. I just don't think you're really going to hit someone at 50 feet unless they are standing still and not paying attention.

There are 2 things I really like about the 300 vs the 2000 though - shot time and pump volume. At Hydropoc I would use the 300 like a hose when people would hide behind a tree. I'd just pin them down, and shoot, swinging the gun back and forth as I pied my way around the tree. They'd eventually get hit. In regards to the massive pump volume, that seemed to be a big advantage for CA99 during our Soakfest. He was able to maintain a moderate rate of fire against close targets. At the night soakfest at Downpour '11 we had a lot of fun with 2000s, but you had to do a lot more dodging and weaving and running in and out of the action. With the 300 you can stay in the action more.

There was 1 real case of CPS 2000 vs SS 300 that I can remember and that was at Hydropoc. I was able to hit DX with my 300 when I was on a hill, but I was not able to hit him when he was on the hill using a 2000. Range and output are king when you have elevation and room to maneuver.

Lastly, I have a final thought for the Oncoming Storm. Your arguments are all hypothetical or theoretical because you've never actually used a CPS 2000 or fought against one. I think it's awesome that you love your 300, but some things are best learned from real hands on experience.

Ultimately, I think that the 300 and 2000 are both outstanding guns that do 2 different things, and if I was in a team battle I would want AT LEAST one of each on my side.
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Re: Duelfest clash of the Titans CPS 2000 vs Super Soaker 300

Postby the oncoming storm » Thu May 30, 2013 12:20 pm

Exalent observation of combat range Ben, I tend to fight between 40 and 45' with my 300. I have tried in the past to hit people further out but I tended to be dodged every time at ranges more than 80% of my full range due to air time on the shot. I guess output really does help usefull range alot more than I thought.

I must an exception to the rule that HWO's are outmaneuvered and outpaced by smaller guns. I can outpace most people in general and the 300 barely slows me down although it kills my already low running endurance (which is why I would probably stink with a 2000)
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Re: Duelfest clash of the Titans CPS 2000 vs Super Soaker 300

Postby HBWW » Thu May 30, 2013 12:33 pm

The pump volume statistic of the 300 is completely negated if the hose is kinked due to the enormous pump lag caused. Without that problem however, the 300 would be incredibly effective at keeping up the pressure against opponents.

I'd still choose a 2000 and manage the field life better, since its stream has better stream potency. The problem however, is that I haven't worked with both within a single game, much less taken them against each other.

With that said, the 2000's dominance really gets old. Being combat effective with other blasters is a nice thing to have, but the distinct advantages of a 2000 make it difficult to counter against.

Mobility and maneuverability are all personal factors more than anything else. I'm aware that I'm more mobile with a 12k than a 2000/2500, but haven't assessed whether that small mobility advantage is worth sacrificing the features of those blasters.

As far as tap shots go, you'll simply have to adapt if the trigger isn't built for it. I never had any huge problems with shooting the 300, even if it isn't as nice as a standard trigger. The point is that you have to focus your shots differently and make smarter spray patterns than be strictly tap-shots only. I never found this to be that much trouble even with the 2000's very quick shot time, but it does need to be managed well in that particular blaster.


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