General Team Overview Thread

General questions and discussions on water warfare regarding tactics and strategies.
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General Team Overview Thread

Postby SEAL » Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:18 pm

The General Team Overview Thread By SEAL.

I couldn't decide whether or not to put this here, or in the tactics section. iSoaker, if you think this should be in the tactics section, then you may move it.

So basically, this thread lists all the main team positions in water warfare, and which blaster works best for the situation. As well as some basic tactics for each position. Edit: I think I'll add position tactics later. Right now, I'm going to take a break! This is the longest post I think I've ever done anywhere, so I don't think we need to make it longer.

Captain:

Overview:
As the name suggests, the Captain is the person who leads the team. Now some people may have different terms, such as General, Commander, Boss, Leader, or whatever. But they all mean the same thing. Above all, Captains should be smart. They must be able to make quick decisions, not buckle under pressure, and they must be strong-willed and confidant. Captains also must be very good strategists. They must be stern, but not too stern. They need to be able to deal with issues such as arguments and such, but also must be likable and charismatic. No one likes a stone wall for a leader.

Qualities for a good Captain:
Calm, cool, and collected.
Brains.
Maturity.
Basically, all the qualities of a leader.

Best recommended equipment:
A good Captain's role is support, not offense. So all you newbies who want to be Captain just because they think Captains get to do the most fighting, think again. Captains should mostly stick around the base, coordinating attacks, drawing maps, etc. So they should always have a pencil/pen and paper on handy. If you're worried about the paper getting wet, I believe that they sell waterproof paper that could be used. As far as blasters go, I'd suggest something in the medium to heavy-ish range. The Captain must be able to defend himself of course. Since the Captain is usually in the base, he/she should probably doesn't need to worry about range much. Something with low range and high soakage would be adequate. Like maybe an MXL mounted on the Captain's desk, and a couple of water balloons.
Recommended blasters:
Flash Flood/Arctic Blast*.
Splat Blaster.
XP Pool Pumper Blaster/Cannon/WW Pool Cannon. (Note: 2 or 3 buckets of water should be on handy with these blasters.)
Monster('01)/CPS 4100.
Aquashock Secret Strike. (ONLY if taking prisoners is allowed, and if your opponents don't know about the 'Secret' nozzle.)
Hydroblitz.
Helix*.
It might even be a good idea to have a squirt pistol at all times for a last-resort type weapon.

Forward:

Overview:
A Forward's job is to just soak, soak, soak. They provide the backbone of the team, and usually do the most fighting. The majority of any good team are Forwards. The best fighters on the team should be Forwards, not captains.

Qualities for a good Forward:
Good fighter.
Good tactical sense.
Strong-willed and willing to stick with their captain 'till death (Err...Soakage! :goofy: ).

Best recommended equipment:
Medium to heavy blasters for primary, and an ultra-light to light secondary/back-up, maybe 2 or 3 water balloons, and a water bottle or two.
Recommended blasters:
Primary:
CPS 1500/1700. (This is the overall best choice for a primary.)
CPS 1000/1200/2100.
XP 150.
SS/XP 300.
Max-D 6000*.
Vindicator*.
Secondary/Back-up:
Max-D 2000*.
MI Defender w/ 100oz Aquapak.
Hornet.
XP 55.
Sneak Attack*.

Heavy Forward:

Overview:
Heavy Forwards, (Known as HF's.) are basically just normal forwards, except they are more heavily armed. HF's usually provide support to the main fighting force, much like tanks; Low maneuverability but high firepower. There should only be around 2 HF's in a group of 8.

Qualities for a good Heavy Forward:
Strength.
Good fighting skills.
Good tactical sense.
Strong-willed and tough.

Best recommended equipment:
Heavy to extra-heavy primary, light, medium, or even heavy secondary. Ultra-light to light back-up. They could also have a medium to heavy primary, light to medium secondary, and heavy or extra-heavy back-up. There are many different combination possibilities. They should also have as many water balloons and bottles as they can carry.
Recommended blasters:
Primary:
Monster X or XL.
CPS 2000.
CPS 2500/2700.
CPS 3000/3200.
Homemades, like APH's and CPH's.
Secondary:
SC Power Pak.
CPS 1500/1700.
CPS 1000/1200.
Aquapak Devastator.
Vindicator*.
Blazer/Expedition*.
Back-up:
Tarantula.
Hornet.
Max-D 2000*.
Or something heavier, if you try a different combo.

Supply Officer:

Overview:
A Supply Officer, is kind of like a medic I suppose. They provide water and maybe towels, if they're allowed. Supply Officers run around on the battlefield, assisting those in need of water/towels, and guarding the armory/stockpile when not in the field. Smaller wars don't really have or need Supply Officers, but bigger wars usually have 3 or 4.

Qualities for a good Supply Officer:
Must be willing to help others.
Strength wouldn't hurt either.

Best recommended equipment:
Supply Officers are mostly defensive/supportive players. They should have as many water bottles as they can carry, (A backpack would help.) and a certain number of towels (If any.) depending on the rules. They don't usually do much fighting, unless on defense, (Protecting the stockpile/armory.) so they should probably have a heavy blaster when on defense, and a medium blaster when in the field.
Recommended blasters:
Defense:
CPS 1500/1700.
Monster X. (And maybe an MXL, for a turret gun or something.)
Any type of high-powered homemade, such as Supercannon II.
CPS 3000.
Monster('01)/CPS 4100.
Support:
CPS 1000/1200/2100.
Vindicator*.
Blazer/Expedition*.
XP 150.
Max-D 6000*.

Field Mechanic:

Overview:
Field Mechanics are another less-common sight in most smaller battles. Their role is kind of unique. They set up traps, disarm enemy traps, and supposedly repair broken blasters in the middle of a battle. Which is kind of hard to believe. With the amount of time it takes to open up a blaster, find what's wrong, get the materials to fix it, then fix it, and screw it all back up, the battle would be over already! Unless you're a very serious team who fights over a course of a few days or even weeks(Or even a whole day.), your Field Mechanic's main job will be just taking care of traps and maybe fixing minor problems with blasters. There should probably be only 1 Field Mechanic on the team, or maybe 2 in bigger wars.

Qualities for a good Field Mechanic:
Good mechanical mind.
True love for blaster tech.

Best recommended equipment:
Field Mechanics should always have a tool belt, with various basic equipment such as screwdrivers, rubber bands, and different materials for setting up traps and such. They should only have a somewhat-light to medium sized blaster for defense.
Recommended blasters:
XP 150.
Lightning/Piranha.
Equalizer*.
XP 310.
Max-D 6000*.
XP 95.

Scout:

Overview:
The name tells the tale, Scouts are the ones who go on ahead and check out the enemy, making note of the number of opponents, weapons, and hopefully do some eavesdropping. There are usually no more then 2 Scouts on one team.

Qualities for a good Scout:
Silent and quick.
Good memory.

Best recommended equipment:
Scouts have to move quickly and quietly, so noisy clothes don't help. Avoid soccer pants, squeaky shoes, and other particularly loud garments. I suggest (Camo preferred.) sweat pants, and any shoe that doesn't squeak. Ordinary T-shirts don't usually make any noise, so you don't have to worry much there. Also, binoculars and walkie-talkies if available. They should carry light to light-medium-ish blasters with maybe a concealable squirt pistol in case of capture. (If it's allowed.)
Recommended blasters:
XP 270.
XP 70.
Max-D 5000. (Only if you don't plan on ambushing anyone.)
Steady Stream*.
Pulse Blaster.

Note: An asterisk next to the blaster name means that the blaster is still available today.

*Sigh* That's it. Now there are a few other positions that different people have, such as: Grunt, Sniper, Vanguard, and a few others that I can't think of now.
I don't like to make too many categories, so I put Grunt in the same category as Forward, and Vanguard in the same category as Heavy Forward.
"Sniping" (I prefer to use the term "Ambushing".), is something anyone can do. There doesn't need to be a certain person for this job, although Scouts can be sent out to soak the enemy leader.

And for all of you living in the US, Happy Labor Day!

~SEAL
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Re: General Team Overview Thread

Postby isoaker » Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:30 pm

Good info and ideas above! As for where this thread belongs, while it does make sense to have put in originally in the Teams forum, I opted to push it into the Tips / Tactics forums instead since my idea for the Teams forum is really for actual Team descriptions, not quite for guides on how to set up Teams.

Soak on!

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Re: General Team Overview Thread

Postby HBWW » Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:43 pm

There are no snipers in water warfare and won't be until WBL's are well-developed enough for it to happen but even then they will see limited use due to their weight. Ambushing, sharpshooting, covert ops, etc. are all better labels for that role.

Anyway, role flexibility and fluiditity is the most important. DX is a master of this topic, but the basic idea is pretty simple; sticking to one role the whole time and being unable to change and adapt on the fly is going to ensure your team looses and gets soaked. Another problem is that people tend to assume that long range means heavy and restricting. I made a CTF capture while carrying a CPS12k and a .5L water bottle and I probably have the least stamina on the team (though if we were playing in a large area I probably wouldn't have been able to make the cap but that's another issue). A CPS10k, 12k, or 21k has 5' to 10' more range than an XP270 but is only slightly heavier; it's easy to carry since you can use the strap. For this reason, I consider those three guns "standard issue" for "standard" "combat infantry" in any given water war. Light runners, WBL crews, and others whose roles are not heavily oriented to direct combat can make use with smaller primaries, but they're really only carried for show. Very small blasters, on the other hand, can be used as backups/sidearms as they have almost as much range as water guns twice their size but are just lacking in capacity. They do encumber slightly though, so for many players they may not even be worth carrying. (If it weren't for that, I'd consider them "standard issue" as well as .5L water bottles, etc.)

Your idea of a captain/leader is debatable. Some groups (real military, hobbyists, or otherwise) believe officers should lead, not follow. Others stick to the traditional method of having officers mostly in charge of coordination and giving orders, but you can't give good orders without good situational awareness, and you don't get situationally aware of what your team is doing by sitting in a water balloon shelter and listening to them over the radio.

I can't think of a water war that would run one game continuously for over 6-8 hours. In that time frame it is unlikely for even water blasters to break. It is more practical for blasters that break to be ditched and, if playing in a long term war (many games), repaired after the game is over or just forget about the thing and use another blaster. Repairing takes time no matter how good you are at it or what materials you have. The time it takes to open the average blaster (which may require powertools to do so within a reasonable time frame) can mean a whole short game and no one is going to sit out a game just to fix a blaster (unless it's their own and they know how to). But if you so choose to have someone do repairs on the field, you definitely need fast-drying epoxy putty. Regular epoxy takes too much time to mix though is better than putty in some situations. Instead, field engineers are probably better off focused on traps if they have a reliable, practical device they can use that will work, and have the time to set it up. An example is if they have a power drill, a long piece of vinyl tube with one end sealed off, and a filled PC/hose, valve, and connection on the other side. The engineer can drill holes through the tube, then say, take an old broken FF's internals, power it up, and have someone pull the valve open at the right time as part of an ambush. This obviously takes time to setup and if the team is tight on time, that time needs to go to filling water blasters, setting up cover/fortifications, building riot shields, etc.

Suppliers/heavy weapons should be carrying no less than a water tank backpack. It's faster to use that than to carry a ton of bottles, though the main problem is that when the backpack runs low it is very difficult to get water out without some kind of miniture pump squeeze system similar to those found on camel backs. Few blasters are adapted to attach to backpacks and attaching to them may not fill their reservoirs reliably. I suppose your water bottle approach works, but only with large bottles. I'd recommend 2L bottles or something of that sort.

Back to fluidity, there are situations where a regular infantryman may become isolated and have to hide. At that point he has to serve as a scout and relay information, ambush by himself, and/or run back to his team. Still, there's probably a good chance that he can wreck havoc on the enemy team without being spotted if, say, the person was ambushed while with a small fireteam and got away during the firefight.

Lastly, the roles demanded from players vary enourmously depending on how your games are setup. If they're casual neighborhood or park games that take place over small areas (spanning several houses is small, believe me), and the games only last 30 minutes or so, it will be a lot different than serious games that take place in medium and large areas in the woods with large teams that span several hours of gameplay. I haven't played in such water wars, but I've played a few airsoft games in the woods that last that long. They are demanding games particularly when footwork becomes difficult.

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Re: General Team Overview Thread

Postby SEAL » Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:58 am

From the top:

Yep, ambushing and sneak attacks on enemy leaders are the closest thing to sniping in WW. Although, I see no reason why you couldn't snipe with a WBL. (I've never built or used one before, so bear that in mind.) Are they inaccurate? I guess weight does prevent you from scaling trees and the like, but unless they're really inaccurate, you could probably easily snipe from your base or outpost or whatever.

Didn't I mention that players can change roles? Maybe not. Anyway, the only players who should use XP 270's, are scouts, while forwards/HF's should usually use the best blasters that the team has. By the way, XP 270's actually can get around 40 feet of range. I don't own a CPS 1000 1200 or 2100, (I used to have a 2100, but I forgot how far it shot.) so I don't know how far they shoot. Around 45' maybe?

As far as captains go, I probably also forgot to mention, that of course they don't have to stay inside their base, protected be secret service. But they probably should if soaking the captain means an instant win for the other team, or if a new captain has to take over, and the second-in-command is a knucklehead. And of course it all matters on the situation.

A water war that runs one game over 6-8 hours would be cool, but that's not the point. Like I said, I find it hard to believe that field mechanics do repair blasters in the middle of a battle, and not just after the battle or in between games, if you play over a span of a few days. So yeah, they would mostly set up traps, cover or whatever. Filling water blasters is the supply officer's job.

Suppliers/heavy weapons should be carrying no less than a water tank backpack. It's faster to use that than to carry a ton of bottles, though the main problem is that when the backpack runs low it is very difficult to get water out without some kind of miniature pump squeeze system similar to those found on camel backs.


You've just given me a good idea. You could make some kind of homemade reservoir backpack, with a faucet on it that can be used to refill blasters. I'll have to think about this...

Yep, anyone can scout. But the kind of scout I was talking about, is the kind that is sent out by the captain to spy on the opponents. They're the ones that have walkie-talkies and binoculars. Unless you happen to have a walkie-talkie for every member of the team, then scouts are generally the ones who do scouting. Unless, like you said, another member finds himself separated from the pack, and happens to stumble upon an enemy base/outpost.

I agree. I'm mostly talking about bigger wars in this situation.

I guess I forgot to add a few things. That can happen when you've been typing for hours without rest. (My brothers didn't help either.)

Lastly, it seems iSoaker decided to move this into the tactics section. I guess it makes more sense, although I couldn't decide earlier.
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Re: General Team Overview Thread

Postby marauder » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:02 pm

I was browsing through the forums and came across this topic. Thought it was a pretty interesting article, especially since several of us have formed teams from this forum and fought each other in person. SEAL, what do you think of this now in retrospect? What does everyone else think in respect to how they fight with their friends/teams today? I have some opinions but I will wait for others to voice theirs first as I do not wish to slant the discussion in one direction or another.
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Re: General Team Overview Thread

Postby Fishfan » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:29 pm

Just my two cents, I think the SS 300 should be moved to heavy forward. It's my understanding that they are as heavy as 3000/3200s, and they have very good firepower.
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Re: General Team Overview Thread

Postby SEAL » Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:12 pm

Holy crap, I totally forgot about writing this. This was actually based on some old articles on isoaker.com (I don't even know if they're still there). This was written before I even knew DX and M4, well before the first community war, so as you can imagine my ideas have changed a LOT. This article was written more for very large-scale wars, with like 50 people or more. Even so, I still probably wouldn't have specific positions like this (except for captain); I'd lean more towards just having anybody do this stuff, depending on who's available, and who I'd deem fit for the task.

With the wars that we have now with like 10 people or less, these positions are definitely redundant (can you picture having a field mechanic in any of our battles?), and all you really need is someone to lead the team, and maybe a mix of heavy and light gunners. My ideal team would probably have nothing but SS 300s, CPS 1500s, 2000s, 2500s, and maybe a 2700 or two. Possibly a few backups for the 2000 users; like CPS 1000s/1200s/2100s, or SC Power Paks.

This post brings back memories. I remember my brothers and I would make Catskill Mtn. SEALs nametags that would have our name and position (as well as our codenames, haha). I was the captain, I think Keith was a scout, and Jon was a heavy gunner. At least that's what I remember. That was when we used to plan for gigantic militaristic wars with tanks, heavily armed bases, and lots of other ultra-expensive equipment (NVG, spy cameras, alarm systems, etc.). Of course, nothing like that ever happened, but they were fun to plan. I was actually partially inspired by reading the Vermin War 8 war story on isoaker.com.
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Re: General Team Overview Thread

Postby marauder » Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:40 pm

Looking back on it, Vermin War 8 was actually rather epic. We had enough people with different talents to warrant positions like this. Jacob (Gunny) and Matt had really strong baseball arms and liked to operate by themselves, so I used them as joint snipers and grenadiers. They would operate on our flank, or in advance of our position and lob waterballoons down on opponents who were moving slow, eg crossing a creek or a swamp, or moving up a hill. Eric (Tiger) and Wes were a sharpshooting team that operated more within the main body of our force but had the capability of going out and scouting or sniping. We used them like this towards the end. People need to know how to work both in small groups and as part of a larger team. I will quote the story from Eric's perspective to show what I mean.


Eric will take over the writing from here, since I was shot.

Wes rummaged through his bag of equipment as I (Eric) watched out for the enemy. "I've got three shots and a smokebomb, that's it." Wes admitted. "I've got one shot in my 1200 and Marauder's SS 40, it's fully loaded." I replied. We decided to get behind this wrecked car that was outside the pinewoods, in a sort of mixed hardwood forest. Not only did it offer shelter, but the enemy had to run out into a 50 yard clearing between the pinewoods and this hardwood forest to get us...excelent for target practice. In all my training and wars I've fought in I'd never seen such lovely ground. I emptied my tank into Wes' 1200 to give him a few more shots. Taking the SS 40 and Wes' smoke bomb I hid behind the tail end of the car. Soon we saw the enemy running towards us, but they stopped at the end of the pinewoods. A 2100, Max D 6000, CPS 1000, and CPS 2700, I counted. They had to be low on water though, if we were they had to be.

Just then the dude with the 2700 rushed up and fired a 10x blast at us, they had seen us after all! Wes smashed the window on his side of the car (the other window on their side was broken) and returned fire with a 5x blast that just missed the dude. "FOUR SHOTS!" Wes yelled. Just then the whole squad charged us and opened fire, drenching the vehicle, but hitting neither of us. I returned fire with my SS 40, but nobody was hit. The soldiers with CPS guns dropped them and pulled out side arms, an SS 30 and an SS 50...Kacy had no backup gun. They had run out of water! Now was the time!

While they were pumping their guns I threw my smokebomb amongst them (picture courtesy of Marauder). Wes and I jumped onto the hood/trunk of the car (probably a bad idea) and jumped off, charging them and going all out with our last shots. Kacy had turned since Marauder had the flash on, and I shot him with the SS 40. Wes fired a sweeping stream that hit two of the others. The guy with the SS 30 tripped and fell and I soaked him with a torrent of classic Supersoaker fire as I pumped and shot at the same time. We had done it! It was over, they were annihilated!

I love this picture.
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