Fighting First

General questions and discussions on water warfare regarding tactics and strategies.
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DX
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Postby DX » Sat May 05, 2007 11:50 pm

Fighting First

^The name is temporary until I can think of a better one. Basically, this is a new forum with only one topic of discussion: fighting water wars.

I've deleted the rest, which turned into a rant. I've realized that it was half hypocritical - taking action, but also complaining while doing so. I know I've said a million times that there is no room for complaining about soakers not having past power. So I'm sorry about that.

I don't really mean to rant, it just kinda happens and I don't recognize it until 50 paragraphs later. I just go off on some tangent making some unfair accusations about some issue that complaining won't help solve.

I don't know what I want to do with Fighting First. WWc used to have several war-related categories, but they were all pushed back into one because of lack of interest. I'm mainly lost as to what to do with all this information I want to express.




Edited By Duxburian on 1178490654
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers

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Postby isoaker » Sun May 06, 2007 9:41 am

@ Duxburian: Another forum? A huge lack of anything wars? Becoming bored?

Ok, this just confuses me. If you were one who didn't already run a forum (you run two and moderate two), I could better understand a desire to create a new forum at least from the viewpoint of not liking how current forums are set-up. However, as the Admin at two forums, why not re-tailor either one or even both towards more 'water war' aspects as opposed to creating a whole new one?

While tempted to further critique the above post, I'm opting away from it for now. However, suffice it to say, I'm most definitely not pleased by the tone and insinuations made towards the general membership in the above post, not to mention the disregard of water-war-related content pushed up by a number of members in the various forums recently. Moreover, such wording hardly encourages more thought on the "water war" aspect of water warfare. If you feel creating a new forum may somehow help inspire more water-war talk by localizing it to one place, that's fine, but I'd highly recommend re-looking at how you try to promote discussions.

:cool:
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Postby Silence » Sun May 06, 2007 11:06 am

If another forum were to be truly successful, it would have to completely be in a single niche. But when it's a niche that has much smaller search volume than water guns...it's going to be hard to develop and sustain the forums.

I guess we'll see how it goes though. Obviously you're going to be adding a lot of content. :cool:

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Postby forestfighter7 » Sun May 06, 2007 11:32 am

Hmmm... Sounds interesting. I think it will be somewhat succesfull, but not hugely due to the points SilentGuy made above.

As for your comment about people wanting to stare at a computer more than fight a war, I am not one of those people, and there are not as many people like that as you seem to imply. Some can't fight due to lack of intrest in their area, and I would have had more wars in the past 3 months if I had been healthier. I am now picking up my teams activity. We had a war last night, and UBF7 is much more into it now. I may have actually found a team to fight. It's important to be optimistic on this subject, though I agree with you a little bit. It has been winter, so teams haven't had much time to fight.

EDIT:My post is blue??? I have to fix that. One sec...

I do agree it's a pity that there is not a huge amount of interst in wars, but try to be optimstic.




Edited By forestfighter7 on 1178469174
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Postby DX » Sun May 06, 2007 5:40 pm

I edited the first post because it was totally out of line, sorry.

However, as the Admin at two forums, why not re-tailor either one or even both towards more 'water war' aspects as opposed to creating a whole new one?


SM is pretty much dead and WWc is everyone's place. I don't have the right to change WWc's atmosphere to favor one aspect over another, admin or not. I doubt Fighting First will work, but I might as well post some new things there and see how that works out.

I've already damaged my reputation enough this year, so I don't think I need to say anymore on the subject.
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers

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Postby Silence » Sun May 06, 2007 5:52 pm

How have you damaged your reputation? :oo:

All I can say is to write up all those articles for SM, then resurrect the SM forums. Publish a book, get it reviewed by some major newspapers or book clubs. Sell it to Toys R Us. I know this is very large scale, but that's the only way you can get more and more people conscious of water wars. :cool:

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Postby isoaker » Sun May 06, 2007 6:03 pm

I agree with Silent Guy! While my own knowledge and experience in water wars is limited, I do understand the desire to push it more to the front than it is, mostly taking a back seat to tech reviews and developments. IMO, part of the problem is actually the nature of the topic. It is easy to talk stock talk and tech talk since those things are tangible. We can all relate to how to hold a soaker and how a stream feels to shoot or be shot with. However, it is much harder to describe actions and thoughts involved in actual water combat. For someone who has never attempted to flank an oncoming attack, the whole idea seems obtuse though flanking can be considered one of the most basic of tactics.

I'd say more guides are needed covering various levels of experience. I'd love to see more discussion on water wars, themselves, but as that is an area that is not my own expertise, I tend to linger more on topics that I am more knowledgeable in. That said, I don't think it's game over for the hope of better and more numerous water war content online. Sometimes, one just needs to stir up just enough inspiration in enough individuals to lead to more consistent discussions and developments.

:cool:

Edit: oh, in terms of re-working WWc, while WWc is for "everyone", you are also part of "everyone", too, y'know! :goofy: Why not bring up the idea of some thread or category shifting there? I know I'd be open to a reworking of those forums (then again, I'm not an Admin there so my vote only counts as a mod. :goofy: )
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Postby forestfighter7 » Sun May 06, 2007 6:15 pm

I would definetly be open to you reworking the WWc forums, I think some more war discussions there would be perfect. In fact, I have a battle report ready to be written...
How have you damaged your reputation???


I think that Sm may be dead for the moment, but activity will pick up in the summer.
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Postby DX » Sun May 06, 2007 9:48 pm

How have you damaged your reputation???


<rant class="long" style="not disrespectful to anyone;">

I've become a bit more moody this year, swinging in and out of optimism. It is mainly from things in my social/personal life. I finally make peace with the move to Ridgewood after 9 years and then my own friends start shaking it up by showing that Ridgewood people can't get along with each other. Two of my friends severed a long friendship after a harmless prank and a baseball bat assault in retaliation. Another broke up with a girlfriend and it didn't go over well. Now this guy hates everyone who even speaks to her, which kinda divides my friends down the middle. I'm the only disconnect in the web of hate, since I refuse to get involved with any of it. Somehow, I ended up as the sensible one who kept all of his original friendships perfectly intact while they butchered theirs.

How does this relate to water warfare? Well, I saved my team from being dragged beyond the point of no return. Nobody in the web of hate wanted to be responsible for bringing down one of the most successful teams in the history of water warfare because of internal problems. I spent 4 hours trying to convince one of my colonels that he could be able to fight on the same side as the colonel he hates. I spent 6 hours talking to the guy who broke up, and we decided that he was going to retire this year. The cover reason was his move to Bridgewater, but the real reason is that he hates Nibordude.

I once thought so highly of my friends, but now I think they can be some of the most senseless people in the world. I don't throw away my closest friends over such trivial things that will have no meaning in a year. They never had any meaning to begin with. Breaking friendships this way limits, well, your friendships. That is a user-defined limit, and you know how I feel about those.

Many of you have the opportunity to fight good wars for years without this absolutely retarded-friendship breaking-spoiled rich town drama. You don't wonder why I'd get mad that people aren't seizing the opportunity? I have 4 months of warfare at my current level left and a team held together only by my carefully protected bonds of friendship. Some of you have so many good years to potentially build on the ideas we discovered and the contributions we made, yet some of you don't take that action. You take your ability to fight without internal chaos for granted. You also take tomorrow for granted.

There is SO much power held in ideas like the Tactical Theory. In 4 months, I can't use it at the level I have been. Who's going to really break it open and change the face of water warfare? If people aren't thinking about wars innovation, it doesn't happen. We'll just sit here stuck at where we were before the theory. Then again, I haven't had time to write much about it :goofy: I can only blame myself for that - it is like giving someone part of a key to open an invisible door. Either way, it can be taken so much farther. I am not the master of the theory, I am a guinea pig. It is a crude idea which lacks refinement and mastery, though also my biggest contribution to wars. In yesterday's war, Waterbridge fielded all veterans while half my force was new members in their first debut. This was the first war that I actually thought about using the theory in its conscious form. We won 8-3. A conventional Ridgewood Militia might not have won by that much, if at all. A 2004 and 2005 RM would have lost outright. The most decisive factors of the war were Tactical Theory SuperConcepts and Strategic Concepts such as Speed, Momentum, and Initiative.

What was the point of going off an a Tactical Theory tangent? The ideas can help you win a war [heck, the ideas can win you a war]. I don't like the conventional ways of thinking about strategy because this subverts them all. I love seeing these ideas in action because then I know I did something useful for someone else, not just myself.

So I kind of damaged my reputation by being moody and hurling rhetoric for no apparent reasons. I could have said that in one sentence, but the background info was too important.

</rant>
<normal class="no rant" style="regular talk;">
I hope no one was hurt by that, because I never mean any disrespect [Duxburian gunners tend to overshoot anyway :p ]. I'll start a topic at WWc for making at least another category for something wars-related.
</normal>
</body>
</html>
</I'm not nerdy in real life>
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers

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Postby forestfighter7 » Sun May 06, 2007 10:10 pm

Duxbarian Posted on: May 06 2007,22:48
Many of you have the opportunity to fight good wars for years without this absolutely retarded-friendship breaking-spoiled rich town drama.


That's true, but I have a story somewhat similar to yours.

One time one of my senior officers(he helped create my team)brought water balloons to a war. Sounds simple, right? Well, it turned out not to be. He threw one at a private on the other side and missed. The private ran over to the WB and stomped on it so my officer woulden't retrieve it to throw again. The officer went ballistic on him and punched him. In the end, my dad had to calm him down.
Later that day my officer sent me an email stating that I had to expel the private and his friend or he hated me. He said that private triggered his anger. Later he expeled himself, and left the team.

That's my drama story. Yours seems way more dangerous than mine, but seeing as the private was 11, it was big for us then.
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Postby DX » Sun May 06, 2007 10:45 pm

Thing is, I designed this team to not have problems. Waterbridge had a fight break out in a 2003 war, so I wanted to make that impossible in the RM. Even with the tension, physical fighting is still impossible today, as I don't tolerate real world problems going that deep into a 2-3 hour water gun fight. The people in question are 17-18 - I thought we were supposed to be mature. I work at a Summer camp and have seen 5 year olds settle their problems better.

I still can, however, rely more heavily on other non-involved people. There are plenty who fight for us without internal issues. Oh, and the baseball bat was hard plastic if you were wondering...nothing really dangerous.
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers

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Postby Leviathan » Sun May 06, 2007 10:56 pm

Shoot guys, Lightning goes through that kind of stuff, especially being a church team. My rear-admiral got a gf, and went to the Methodist church for two weeks. When he got back, the team called him everything from "double-agent" to things I won't repeat-at church!!! He hasn't been back since; either to team or to church. Just today I got a phone call from my new RA saying that my active Artillery Commander had just made out with his gf and he was gonna kill him blah blah blah.... Then my AC calls and starts on how he can't understand why RA's mad because RA and his girl are fighting anyway....

I think every team goes through it, be it friends or professional. Remember, we're humans, humans have drama. DX, I understand completely why you're acting a lil snappy, you have every right to that. I don't mean to turn this into Dr. Phil forums, but we can help you out man, just talk to us.
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Postby mutuhaha » Mon May 07, 2007 2:58 am

I like the idea of a more water war oriented forum/thread/atmosphere, being more of a strategist than a technician. But to be fair to the general community, who may not have the circumstances to go into water war, perhaps instead of starting a whole new forum for water war, we could just have some sticky threads in WWc in the relevant water war section.

On the whole I like the forum sections in Fighting First, but I think the classification of tactics could be simplified, as it seems very tailored to classifiying Tactical theory articles rather than articles written by the general community. For example, maybe it could be reordered into Basic Tactics (basic stuff)/Intermediate Tactics (trickier stuff)/Strategy (overall planning and wide ranging things), and whatever else necessary. That way, it becomes easier for people to post their thoughts on tactics or raise discussions on speculative tactics. Once it becomes easier to do so, more people would add their thoughts, making the scene hopefully livelier and accomplishing the objective.

Peace be with everyone's teams. Perhaps I'll post my thoughts on team relationships some other time, now I gotta study for exams.




Edited By mutuhaha on 1178524797
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Postby isoaker » Mon May 07, 2007 3:31 pm

@Duxburian: I still wonder whether, as opposed to having a new forum, WaterWarfare.com's or Soakermedia's forums could be adjusted to have more specific war and tactics sections than it currently has, but not quite as many as Fighting First does. My main thought is if more war-related discussions are desired, I would opt to put it more in the face of the current active membership as opposed to hoping tactics-interested members join a new forum.

That's my opinion, anyhow. If you still feel a new slate is still the better route, that's fine, too. 'tis your "baby" :goofy:

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Postby Silence » Mon May 07, 2007 4:44 pm

I hope all goes well with your team in the remaining four months. I guess there are drawbacks to having water warfare so ingrained in your school. :)

Still, I suggest you reassess your importance in the water warfare community. I never thought I'd say it, but a little optimism never hurts :cool:. For all you know, your life is just starting. You can set up a whole new team in Connecticut. Work on your book. Set up a blog, let out all your thoughts and articles on it. Look at marauder4, he's in college and still rockin'...look at XP20Warrior, he's in college and having fun...look at everybody. Imagine how great it'll be to have a team that can travel and fight others?

I can only imagine how harsh I'm coming across. Believe me though, we know how it is. We've all run across blunders, we all need to let out some stress. Unfortunately, it's just human nature to think you've got it worst, and at the moment you probably do.

All I can say is that it's possible to move on. You've still got the most admired team ever, you've still got reputation, you still have better fights than I can ever hope for, you've got as bright a future as the rest of us (for heaven's sake, you're only a couple years ahead! :laugh:)...so don't stress!

As for the forums, as I've said, just continue to work on the content. Write the book. Finish SM. That'll help a lot more than trying to keep alive discussions on a half-dead forum. It's not a frantic rush to fulfill the next four months. :cool:

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Postby XP20Warrior » Wed May 09, 2007 1:38 pm

......I'm not sure what to say on this one.

Nothing bad, but gf's seem to ruin a bunch of stuff, it appears. Nothing against girls, they can be the greatest pals in the world. But when you start getting into a romantic relationship, things go immediately sour.

My cousin has had a gf for over a year now. Almost every single time when me and my other cousins plan an activity or event, whether it be a Halo match, a watergun fight, or just to come over to someone's house to watch a movie, my cousin says "he might". Fifteen minutes before an event takes place, he calls and says "he can't make it." This has happened countless times, and it has gotten to the point that even if he is my favourite cousin, I am not asking him to do anything else.

Then you talk to him on the phone, and he pretends like we never even called him to do something, and tell me that he went out with "Leslie". And its even more stupid stinking, because he's 21 and she's 17.

As someone once said, forgot which movie it's from, "There's always something that you've never thought you'd see in this universe."
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Postby isoaker » Wed May 09, 2007 1:45 pm

Nothing bad, but gf's seem to ruin a bunch of stuff, it appears.

LOL

Well, things definitely change once relationships between males and females start evolving. For myself, I'd never date someone who didn't enjoy using water blasters. :goofy: A female doesn't have to be obsessed to the same level as I, but shouldn't hold me back too much, either. At the same time, water warfare isn't everything *gasp*. I ain't marrying my soakers. :goofy: Life's still about balance and balancing fun things with responsibilities with duties, etc. I'm just happy I still find the time to enjoy my hobby, albeit not as much time as I used to. True friends work things out over time, but no relationship (friends or girlfriend/boyfriend) is ever without its rough periods. However, the best relationships are the ones that end up lasting through the troubled periods.

:cool:
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Postby XP20Warrior » Wed May 09, 2007 1:49 pm

Lol, point taken. But I wish my cousin would have the deceny to say no instead of "I might" then call before it starts and say no. He was never this kind of person until he met Leslie. :( Common courtesy, you know?
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