Users, not guns, win wars!

General questions and discussions on water warfare regarding tactics and strategies.
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DX
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Post by DX » Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:59 pm

Another promised article!

Users, not guns, win wars:

Ok, this is a very simple concept. People all the time ask "which gun is better" or "which gun will win" or the such. However, it it not really correct to compare two guns and try to decide which one would "win" unless user skill is defined in that situation.

A gun is only as good as its user. Never forget that. A n00b wielding a big gun like a CPS 1500 can be driven back by a seasoned veteran wielding a small gun like an XP 310. In the same way, two users to equal skill with guns such as a 1500 vs a 2500 will balance each other perfectly. These are not based off logic, these are based off actual observations. Little is more threatening than a user who knows how to use his/her gun effectively.

A good user maximizes his gun's strengths. That is obvious. If your gun has amazing capacity, go on the offensive and shoot often, get the pressure on the enemy, make things hot. If your gun has amazing range, get on the front lines and hammer the enemy from afar, but only take well placed shots and in the tap-pump style unless your gun also has the capacity to justify taking lots of shots. Not using your gun to its fullest ability is like going out on the track during a meet and jogging the 100m dash. If you want to win, you've got to use the strengths of your gun against the enemy but also against the enemy's counters. A competent enemy will try and negate your gun's strengths and you have to be ready for that. Don't get drawn into bad fighting places and don't assume the enemy will do things they obviously won't, like attacking a heavily fortified hill head-on.

A good user cancels out his gun's weaknesses. Like my "Elimination of Capacity Stats" article I will be writing. If you are using a gun that guzzles water, such as a CPS 2000, don't let the enemy play off that weakness! Eliminate it! Using the tap-pump method, you can eliminate any disadvantages in shot time and shots per tank. That way, you can stretch your tank out for over an hour and never get anywhere close to running out of pressure. Ever. You should never run out of pressure in a non-soakfest war ever again after reading that upcoming article. In a similar way, if you have a CPS 2100 and are facing longer range guns, don't let the enemy use that to their advantage. Fight in places where range advantage is negated. There are few places where range doesn't help, but there are places. And I won't say where to look, since my opponents read the iSoaker forums too. :p Also, don't forget to counter your enemy's counter against your counter! Water warfare is as much a psychological game as a physical showdown. Every move has an effective counter, and every counter has a counter! You will need to do a lot more in order to draw an enemy into an ambush spot, out of a fortification, or down from a hill. Have patience, always keep your disadvantages down, no matter how you have to lure the enemy into your grasp.

Lots of newbies with bad guns vs a handful of vets with good ones: This is an old debate, and in this situation, the battle could swing either way depending on the terrain and how severe the gap is. However, no matter how powerful your guns, or how many years of experience you have, there will be situations where inferior-armed enemies will overwhelm you purely by numbers. It happened to me as recently as the last war! I can take on 3 at once, but as that battle showed, 4 is too many. When the better armed soldiers have the numbers advantage there is no excuse for defeat! [Well there is, but that's the subject of yet another article]

Every user is different. Just because someone with a CPS 4100 fights badly doesn't mean every 4100 user fights badly. In the inverse, not every 2500 user will be like the guy who just kicked your ass today. So, you have to treat each user independently and form a strategy against that person as an individual. Each time the person behind the gun changes, you have to change too. One strategy will not work against every user of a certain soaker. Switch up your tactics and make them appropriate for the enemies you are fighting.

I think that's it. This was another one of those 45 minute write-ups, and I hope people actually read this one. [*COUGH* Taking the Initiative article going largely unnoticed[*COUGH*]

:laugh:
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers

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isoaker
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Post by isoaker » Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:36 pm

Great article, Duxburian! This is along the lines of what I'm working on writing up.

With your permission, I'd like to repost your post as a short article in the Training Grounds section on iSoaker.com.

:cool:
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Hannibal
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Post by Hannibal » Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:45 pm

Very nice article. I liked this one very much. I feel bad reading all this information and not having anything to give back, but I can say it's a nice article. I liked especially the section on using your strengths to their maximum potential and canceling out your weaknesses. I'd never quite thought that way before.

EDIT: And could you PM me the secrets on negating a poor range weakness? I wouldn't tell anyone, :goofy: and I'm dying to know. Or are you not up to that? :cool:




Edited By Hannibal on 1145577082
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"Look! a CPS 2000 10th anniversary edition! I'll buy two, one to keep, and one to use!"
*Takes them home, opens one, fills it, and pumps it up.*

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"Oops, I guess it had a Max-D trigger."

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isoaker
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Post by isoaker » Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:52 pm

The thing that is alluded to but not quite mentioned is that many people like putting forth the imaginary situation: what if two people had exactly the same abilities, experience, etc.? No matter what, there will always be differences between warriors. Even if every tactic and experience is equal, the fact that one is standing on one side of the battlefield versus the other will change advantages and disadvantages of both players. No such thing as exaclty equal players, thus the better player will prevail.

That said, of course, differences in some blaster power do call for different tactics. An XP215 user will need more patience to outsoak a CPS1000 user. Not impossible, but definitely more challenging.

:cool:
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Hannibal
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Post by Hannibal » Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:02 pm

That said, of course, differences in some blaster power do call for different tactics. An XP215 user will need more patience to outsoak a CPS1000 user. Not impossible, but definitely more challenging.


Yeah, that's for sure. You'd need to run real fast and get in close, as well as dodge real well, to win. And it would take a good long time.




Edited By Hannibal on 1145578058
EV Nova - Space action/RPG, for Windows and Mac!
http://www.ambrosiasw.com/games/evn/

"Look! a CPS 2000 10th anniversary edition! I'll buy two, one to keep, and one to use!"
*Takes them home, opens one, fills it, and pumps it up.*

"snap!"

"Oops, I guess it had a Max-D trigger."

DX
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Post by DX » Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:18 pm

With your permission, I'd like to repost your post as a short article in the Training Grounds section on iSoaker.com.


Sure, do what you want with it. :cool:

Yeah, that's for sure. You'd need to run real fast and get in close, as well as dodge real well, to win. And it would take a good long time .


That's what your enemy holding the 1000 would expect. If you want to win this in a reasonable time period, you would have to switch up some tactics. Ambushes would be the way to go here, make your enemy walk around looking for you, nail him/her in a nice place, then vanish and do it again. You would want to move into areas of thick vegetation far from sources of water. If necessary, draw the enemy in slowly, make him/her waste shots, run him/her out of water. If it fails, get the heck out of there. Work on your 400m sprints because most people can't keep up a hard sprint that long, myself included. :laugh:

Although you do want to be good at dodging; your cover should help. Avoid all open places where the 1000 has the clear advantage. Of course, if your opponent is more skilled than you are, forget about it, because the 1000 will walk all over your XP 215 regardless of what you try to do. That is unless you really get unconventional, if you really get into weird tactics. But it still won't be very effective without help from a team.
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers

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Post by LtDan64 » Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:07 pm

I wouldn't say your articles are going unnoticed! They are just deep, and give us a lot to chew on, thus that we are better off to ponder our answer for a healthy length of time before we respond. It's just a good bit deeper than most here are used to (IMO a good thing). We need more stuff like this to negate the shallow and the thoughtless. These articles are a HUGE step in the right direction. Keep up the good work! It's actually useful!



Edited By LtDan64 on 1145581708
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Dacca
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Post by Dacca » Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:58 pm

dans right, look at views rather then posts. also this was very well stated, never factor out the issue of human error and murphy's law. a user with a blaster that is suited towrds them have a better chance then a vet with a blaster that is akward for them. none of my soakers have the greatest range and im ok with that. i like to run and dodge (that and a command position isnt that bad either :D )
more reliable then a max-D trigger

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Post by DX » Thu Apr 20, 2006 9:41 pm

Then in that case I will keep going. The last time I wrote an article before this week was a long, long time ago, so I have all this stuff that has piled up in my head. Some ideas I might write on:

Eliminating Capacity Stats
Shot time and shots per tank can be nullified in combat if you wish.

PC Swapping Integrations [What the Heck is a CPS 1100?]
^About the concept and the 40 new guns it created. Regular k-modded soakers were made obsolete by this additional mod.

Fun Unconventional Tactics
^Tactics with no purpose other than to have fun with your enemy and mess with their heads. Make your wars more enjoyable, at least for your team.

Fighting Outnumbered, but still Playing to Win
^Have your 8v4 cake and eat it too.

The Ubiquitous Position
^Why you should learn all the positions and use them when necessary. And why assigning positions is bad.

Fighting a Night Battle and having "fun" with your enemy
^Intimidate the crud out of your enemy during a night battle using
unconventional tactics designed for the sheer joy of playing with your opponent's heads. These tactics may win you the battle, but they are only designed for fun and to boost your own morale and confidence.

How to Counter Various Moves and Counter the Counters
^The above article will probably be so confusing as to knock points off your IQ. It will take me quite a while to write.
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers

Robin4286
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Post by Robin4286 » Thu May 18, 2006 7:50 pm

This is so true, i Ran in with a Pirahna and 2 water ballons and managed to make someone who was holding a hose flee only getting hit in a gash across the chest.

Dodging is a great thing to be good at!

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Dr. D
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Post by Dr. D » Thu May 18, 2006 8:23 pm

Robin4286 wrote:This is so true, i Ran in with a Pirahna and 2 water ballons and managed to make someone who was holding a hose flee only getting hit in a gash across the chest.

Dodging is a great thing to be good at!
Hoses are overrated IMHO, as they are completely stationary. Unless you have backup, its never wise to stay in one place all of the time.

BTW, when you mean gash, the first thing that comes to my mind is bloody gash. I''m guessing/hoping you're refering to the water's mark?
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Post by Maddermadcat » Sun May 28, 2006 11:35 am

Duxburian, PM me with where to look for spots where range advantages don't matter. I really want to know...
Thanks in advance!
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Stencil
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Post by Stencil » Sun May 28, 2006 12:21 pm

I think:
66% user.
33% gun.
1% luck.
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Post by XP20Warrior » Wed May 31, 2006 9:44 am

I think:
66% user.
33% gun.
1% luck.


I think:

90% User
7% Weapon
1% Natural Elements
2% Intuition
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Stencil
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Post by Stencil » Wed May 31, 2006 10:21 am

I see the gun as a drug that inhanses your preformance.
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DX
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Post by DX » Wed May 31, 2006 1:06 pm

If you want my division, it would be:

60% User
30% Natural Elements
5% Gun
5% Luck

The park itself is a huge factor: terrain, wind, height advantage, plant density, etc. A large park can also erode user stats as they get tired. The most challenging parks become a second enemy, and are the most fun to fight in.
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers

Dacca
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Post by Dacca » Wed May 31, 2006 1:09 pm

70% user
20 % soaker
10 % other players

the terrain has a diffrent effect on everyone just as everyone plays diffrently. you may be playing agains someone who is better and sometimes worse. but that asaide, its all how you play the game with a little bit how the game plays everyone.
more reliable then a max-D trigger

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Stencil
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Post by Stencil » Wed May 31, 2006 1:51 pm

Hey i started all this persentage stuff off!

Yay!


:soakon2:
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Post by Speedbeetle06 » Wed May 31, 2006 3:21 pm

I say:
60% User
10% Gun
30% Stratagy
:soakon:
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Post by DX » Wed May 31, 2006 3:26 pm

"Strategy" is implied with "user." In fact, every user-based stat is implied there.
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers

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