Mini WBL, a New Class of Water Guns?

Water blaster concepts and dream designs for water guns and related equipment.
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mr. dude
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Mini WBL, a New Class of Water Guns?

Postby mr. dude » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:28 am

I didn't know where else to put this, it's kind of a concept I guess.

Anyway, since I saw the Xploderz series, I got excited about that idea (I know that it's a poorly constructed series, but the idea is there). It got me thinking, this idea, at its best, is essentially a painball gun that shoots water. That could actually be a very effective water gun, the kind of thing that snipers would use.
Now, it's almost identical in concept to a water balloon launcher, just on a smaller scale. Much like a regular soaker is the small scale version of water cannons like the Supercannon and what I think DX called the n00b killer. This would be the XP sized WBL that you can actually use in prolonged skirmishes. I'll call it the Water Pellet Blaster (WPB) for the rest of this post.

Comparing a WPB to a regular soaker (much like comparing a WBL to a water-cannon), you're sacrificing output for range. Small 'pellets' of water are far more aerodynamic than streams (not to mention are lighter in many cases), so will go much further. Depending on the mechanism used, if it's just like a paintball gun then it needs no pumping (except the occasional fill of the pressure chamber). Aiming should also be easier than a standard soaker.

However, this idea has so many downsides that need to be worked out before it's anywhere near ready for mass production.
1) I can't think of a reasonable ammo system. Martianshark says the Xploderz "Wetballz" are too much of a gel to soak anything, not to mention that they take 4 hours to prepare. Another option is to use mini-water balloons, but there's a littering issue with that. A bit of chemistry knowledge will solve this one.
2) Safety is a big concern. If it's going to go far, that means it has to leave the barrel at a high speed, ie ouch at close range. That's just stock. The great thing about water guns is that it's hard to make them dangerous (at least as long as you can still call it a water gun). Off the top of my head, I can think of 3 easy steps to make a WPB potentially lethal (in the form I'm picturing anyway, which is literally a paintball gun that shoots Wetballz). MAJOR safety precautions need to be taken when designing these. As a modder, half the fun of owning a water dispensing device is the potential for power-mods, and I'm perfectly safe in the knowledge that the worst that can happen is breaking my soaker (unless of course I'm really stupid with the modification). The fact that I don't think power-modding WPBs would be safe is very bad news given how power-hungry we as a group tend to be, it only takes one accident to make a tragedy.
3) I can imagine cost being higher than it should be.

Safety is the most important point, and it's a broad topic that needs a lot of analysis. The last thing we want is a readily available firearm.

Anyway, while I don't know how to eliminate all the safety concerns, I don't think it should be hard to do it, so I'll keep going with my design ideas.
Just like Nerf, it could be air or spring-powered. I'm not the most well-versed in Nerfing, but I imagine air would be more convenient. Both are easy enough to make.

For ammo, I think Wetballz are on the right track, allow me to explain why. 1) Personal safety: For a number of reasons, I see much less of a threat with a correctly chosen "water-like substance" than with a mini-waterballoon. 2) Environmental safety: Even biodegradable water balloons are a bit of an environmental hazard until they're degraded. 3) Convenience: Although it is inconvenient to wait 4 hours for my gel to form, it's a lot better than filling up enough balloons to last a good battle. All they need is the right chemical mix and I think Wetballz could inspire something good.

Just thought I'd share this idea that's been on my mind for a while.

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wetmonkey442
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Re: Mini WBL, a New Class of Water Guns?

Postby wetmonkey442 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:39 am

The two largest issues are:

1) Ammo -- which you discuss

2) Propulsion -- You keep referencing paintball guns in your post. Would you want a similar Co2 setup? This would be prohibitively expensive for casual players.

These sorts of threads have popped up before. People would always like to extend the range of the typical water gun fight to more realistically mimic real combat. The thing is, I like water gun fights because they are close range and sloppy. Streams are unpredictable, and add an element of strategy and athleticism to the game that would not be found with fast-moving projectiles. At the end of the day, a device like the one you are proposing would deliver a tiny amount of water to a target downrange very quickly. That does not sound like a water gun, that sounds like a paintball gun. My suggestion is that if you really want this type of long range combat, you get into airsoft or paintball. Water warfare is just a different game.

BTW when I say that threads like these have popped up before, I speak with extreme certainty: I know because a few of them have belonged to me! :P
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isoaker
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Re: Mini WBL, a New Class of Water Guns?

Postby isoaker » Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:30 am

Dumb question, but what happens if you load a paint ball gun with a bunch of water-soaked paint balls (as opposed to paint-soaked paintballs)? ..err... rather, is there such a thing as a "blank" paint ball?

Hmm... there are. Clear Training Paintballs

Might just be a matter of getting someone to make water-filled paintballs and stick with existing paintball tech (or, of course, improving paintball tech to fire bigger water-filled paintballs).

:cool:
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atvan
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Re: Mini WBL, a New Class of Water Guns?

Postby atvan » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:02 am

Thos always pops up, and never really goes anywhere. The bad guys in an RP thread at SSC carried such weapons. If you could find or manufacture tiny like 1/2 or 1 inch water ballons, you could go nerf style and get 50 foot ranges with sloppy work and a k26.
DX wrote:In the neanderthal days of K-modding, people would lop off the whole PRV

Well, not that much soakage.

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mr. dude
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Re: Mini WBL, a New Class of Water Guns?

Postby mr. dude » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:37 am

Well, when I started writing that I had a paintball image fixed in my head, mainly because I recently went paintballing, but by the time I was done(it took me a good 2 hours to completely finish writing it) I was thinking more about Nerf.
Before I continue, I just want to clarify my intentions. I'm not looking to mimic real warfare, like Wetmonkey said we have paintball and airsoft for that. On the contrary, I want these to look as goofy as possible and have stupid names like "Space Orbs" and "Hurricane Balls" :D Instead, I just want something that increases range without making the standard soaker obsolete (it's not at all in the spirit of the game to only have a bunch of these running around).
@Wetmonkey, like I said, I've shifted my view to Nerf. That means something like this is as complicated as I want it to get. Loading system pushes pellet into barrel, trigger pull releases cocked spring and pushes pellet forward. Or we have this option, same idea but air powered (and it gives rise to the comedic irony of modding a soaker into a nerf gun so it shoots water pellets). There's also the WBL design I always see, which is a reservoir of pressurized air feeding a smaller, regulated, firing chamber. The air pressure ones could use a standard air pump, like what we have for pressurized reservoir soakers.

@isoaker, interesting link. Here's another one, although I'm assuming those feel just as pleasant as regular paintballs (ie not very pleasant). Not being a chemist myself, I don't know what kind of mix would provide the perfect ammo, I'll keep browsing.

@atvan, I saw 1 1/2" water balloons at the dollar store a few days ago, that's what inspired me to write the topic. Though it would take something special to find 1/2" WBs.

I'll leave you guys with this video of how paintball guns should be used :cool:

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atvan
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Re: Mini WBL, a New Class of Water Guns?

Postby atvan » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:20 pm

You said that like the FAR is not complicated. I would recomend a pump SNAP with a hopper feed, or some sort of breach if you want to use shells.
DX wrote:In the neanderthal days of K-modding, people would lop off the whole PRV

Well, not that much soakage.

Beware the Purple

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mr. dude
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Re: Mini WBL, a New Class of Water Guns?

Postby mr. dude » Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:00 pm

As a pure concept, the FAR doesn't seem too complicated. Building it seems tricky, what with all the intricate work involved, but the design is easy enough to follow.
Anyway, my point is, any projectile-shooting toy gun could be used.

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atvan
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Re: Mini WBL, a New Class of Water Guns?

Postby atvan » Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:48 pm

I have read that guide several times, pondeded, searched relevant things on google, and still cannot figure out how his ejection works. He said he made it just like a real gun, yet I have yet to find a source of how an extractor works on a real gun. An explanation or linky-linky would be great.
DX wrote:In the neanderthal days of K-modding, people would lop off the whole PRV

Well, not that much soakage.

Beware the Purple

Datum
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Re: Mini WBL, a New Class of Water Guns?

Postby Datum » Thu May 08, 2014 2:30 am

atvan wrote:I have read that guide several times, pondeded, searched relevant things on google, and still cannot figure out how his ejection works. He said he made it just like a real gun, yet I have yet to find a source of how an extractor works on a real gun. An explanation or linky-linky would be great.


His ejectors work just like a real rifle (well, one way to do it at least).

Image

This is an AR-15 bolt, it loads and extracts the cartridges from the breech. On the left side is the extractor, a hinged grabber which will slide over the rim of the cartridge, grabbing onto it when pulled backwards. This is so when the bolt is moving forwards, the cartridge rim will be able to fit into the bolt face, but when the bolt retracts backwards, it drags the cartridge with it. On the right there is a small rod, this is the ejecting mechanism. It is spring loaded, so when the shell is bring pulled backwards, seated in the bolt face, it will push on one side, causing the shell to pivot around the side held in by the extractor, flinging it out of the port on the side.

Sorry I can't explain more than that- I don't own any firearms and for some reason it's ridiculously hard to find any diagrams or animated things to describe this.


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